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From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2044787 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 8:40 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:36a6cafc-0875-47d7-822a-8b09cd65465a@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 1, 3:49 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>> > messagenews:cf19041a-9495-400b-857d-5c11d84c3296@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Aug 31, 11:15 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>> > > messagenews:d8e9d153-0602-4661-b8f6-043c49876ee5@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> > > On Aug 28, 5:45 pm, "Patrick Keenan"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in
>> > > > messagenews:lgkf95dssrio8lbv63gei79c16vnulal39@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:13:19 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> > > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > >>On Aug 28, 7:54 am, "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>wrote:
>> > > > >>> Hi. I've been on this NG for years. I have yet to hear a denier or
>> > > > >>> revisionist justify the murder of children; Jewish or otherwise.
>> > > > >>> If
>> > > > >>> someone could point out where a revisionist stated this, I'd be
>> > > > >>> happy
>> > > > >>> to say I'm wrong.
>> > > > >>> Look at the recent sadistic post of 'I'll always be'. Did Germar
>> > > > >>> Rudolf or Ernst Zundel
>> > > > >>> (who I think is a bit wacky but should not be in slam) ever
>> > > > >>> justify
>> > > > >>> the murder of children?
>>
>> > > > >>Quoted:
>> > > > >>At the end of February 1945 some 420 Jewish children between the
>> > > > >>ages
>> > > > >>of 4 and 7 years were sent into KZ Gusen, where they were
>> > > > >>exterminated
>> > > > >>by SS-Doctors and their helpers with heart-injections.
>>
>> > > > >>How can nazis deny their recorded actions against innocents?
>>
>> > > [snip]
>>
>> > > > > but I have seen some pretty wild murderous statements by people such
>> > > > > as mcvay and his entourage.
>>
>> > > > I suspect that you won't be able to provide a single reference of Mr.
>> > > > McVay
>> > > > calling for anyone's murder.
>>
>> > > > -pk
>>
>> > > [quote]
>> > > I won't bother with the reference,
>> > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > No surprises there than. I'll expect another unsuported accusation then
>> > > shall I?
>>
>> > > [quote]
>> > > but since you've been on this group
>> > > for some time you must remember that McVay stated that the 'Germans
>> > > got what they deserved'.
>> > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > And there it is! How by the way is that saying "Germans should be
>> > > murdered"?
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > He obviously condoned the murder of civilians.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > Really? Funny how the quote you supply (if indeed it is true which you
>> > have
>> > not shown since ther is no reference to the original message ID given)
>> > in no way supports that contention. Have you got ANY evidence of Mc Vay
>> > calling for the murder of someone?
>>
>> [quote]
>> McVay justified the murder of civilians.  Is that not enough for you?
>> [/quote]
>>
>> No actually it isn't.
>> Suppose I say "the Moon is made of cheese" Is that not enough for you to
>> believe me?
>>
>> [quote]
>> He said that the Germans got what they deserved.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> No . YOU ASSERT without reference that he stated that. You gave no reference
>> to any message from where you claim he stated that.
>>
>> [quote]
>> Let's ask Ken.  Ken, did you or did you not state that the 'germans
>> got what they deserved' when called out on the bombings of german
>> cities?
>> [/quote]
>>
>> If he stated it the same applied to him. He would have to produce WHERE he
>> stated it! But you are SHIFTING THE BURDEN again! If YOU claim it it is for
>> YOU to show it!
>>
>> [quote]
>> I would be shocked if I heard the truth btw.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> So you expect him to deny it? But the point is YOU are the one claiming he
>> stated it so it isn't for him to confirm or deny anything!
>>
>>
>>
>> > > [quote]
>> > > We were debating the murder of pregnant
>> > > women, old men, children in the allied bombing campaign.
>> > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > Which assumes the allies directly targeted pregnant women (how from that
>> > > altitude they knew they were pregnant or women amazes me) old people and
>> > > children.
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > The allies knew that there were pregnant women and children and
>> > accountant present in the cities they bombed.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > As did the Germans. But that is not proof that either specifically
>> > targeted
>> > pregnant women. giving a lethal injection to a child IS however
>> > specifically
>> > targeting them!
>>
>> [quote]
>> The allies specifically targeted civilians who were made up of Women,
>> Pregnant Women, Old Men, Children, Tradespeople, Professionals,
>> Unskilled/Skilled Labour etc.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> One can't specifically target subsets of a general population if one is
>> targeting the whole population!
>>
>
>The law of probability states that there were women, pregnant women,
>children, men, old men, accountants, lawyers, bakers, backhoe
>operators in that population.

It becomes even more probable when the target is the densely populated
inner city of the larger German urban areas. The wealthy upscale areas
were not hit because the houses are too far apart and it is difficult
to set a firestorm.

>
>
>>
>>
>> > > Furthermore the Germans bombed London. I can in no way equate the German
>> > > bombing of London with the Nazi deliberate killing of Children with
>> > > lethal
>> > > injection. By the way I don't condone bombing of civilians in London
>> > > Dresden
>> > > or Japan but it is still a wholly different matter to the death camps of
>> > > the
>> > > Nazis.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2044788 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:46:03 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:21vl95to4pjh5er5bo21l7nd637dpmujl9@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:46:18 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 30, 8:18 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in 
>>>> messagenews:e16b65f7-728c-42ab-a3eb-427b11298951@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Aug 28, 9:30 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>>>> > messagenews:9e229bed-cb8b-4e27-a656-9039588044d2@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > > Hi. I've been on this NG for years. I have yet to hear a denier or
>>>> > > revisionist justify the murder of children; Jewish or otherwise. If
>>>> > > someone could point out where a revisionist stated this, I'd be 
>>>> > > happy
>>>> > > to say I'm wrong.
>>>>
>>>> > Let me ask you then. If children were murdered by the Nazis and you 
>>>> > deny
>>>> > they were murdered is that akin to justifying the murder?
>>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> If a soccer player takes a dive (it happens all the time ) and another
>>>> innocent player gets a red card and the team get a penalty and win the 
>>>> match
>>>> because of it and the manager of the team of the diving player knows it 
>>>> and
>>>> says nothing then he is condoning what the player did! He isnt diving
>>>> himself but he is supporting what the player did and is cheating.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Here you are assuming that holocaust deniers(let's say they deny the
>>>gas chambers)know that there were gas chambers.
>>
>> Most of the "arguments" of the exterminationists on this newsgroup are
>> based on a whole boatload of unsupported assumptions
>
>Actually, based on massive amounts of evidence, not assumptions.

Nonsense. If there were verifiable evidence as opposed to manufactured
material suitable for allied show trials such as Nuremberg there would
be little opposition to the story. The reality is that the story is
99% hot air and consists of EXACTLY the same sort of "evidence" that
the WW1 atrocity stories did, all proven false afterwards. Why should
all the same tired allied propaganda proven to be false after WW1
suddenly be all true after WW2?

>
>> such as you have
>> shown in your line above. People who dispute the gassings generally
>> also dispute that the cobbled-together shacks labelled as gas chambers
>> actually were such, since the alleged gas chambers defy the laws of
>> physics and chemistry.
>
>Except, of course, that they don't defy them.    And that's why people who 
>dispute the gassings on such grounds aren't taken seriously.

If that were true, then you wouldn't be here, nor would skeptics be
thrown into jair for expressing doubt.

>
>Zyklon was designed to be used, in far higher concentrations for much longer 
>times, in structures as exotic and elaborate as *tents*, for the purpose of 
>fumigation.
>
>It was commonly used in average homes and railway cars in this way. 
>Specially built installations were not needed.
>
>*Any* structure that could hold the gas for ten or fifeen minutes would be 
>more than enough to act as a homicidal gas chamber.
>
>Keep in mind that people gas themselves in automobiles or garages.
>
>Your "argument", if we can call it that, really discredits itself, because 
>it requires that the commercial purpose for which Zyklon was used for some 
>years could not have been accomplished, and that the Germans kept using 
>Zyklon even though it wasn't working.
>
>But perhaps you think that Germans would be too stupid to notice that.
>
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2044789 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A History of Nazi Germany in Documents
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:08:28 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>There are kinds of papers but they do make sure you can only see what they 
>allow you to see. Is it not amazing how much of corruption is going on 
>selling their product while at the same time thy do make sure you only 
>allowed to see what they want you to see. Human falsehood is their 
>trademark.

The allies waded through literally millions of pieces of paper
weighing thousands of tons, and they managed to find a mere handful
that could be massaged into something sinister with the help of
"euphemisms" to translate quite clear words in German.

I've seen too many gross distortions and outright lies from things
that were purportedly translations from German. On those occasions
where I got to see the original German, it rather frequently didn't
say what was claimed at all.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:pq0m959cdv0a9f8aoc67on4irln2fds6a8@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:13:40 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Interesting Gord who is allowed to research or investigate you finding.
>>>Could it be it is only your chosen once.
>>
>> A "document" is a piece of paper, and once it has been in allied
>> hands, it is worthless as "historical proof" of anything. Too many
>> things have been "amended" or even totally fabricated to support the
>> allied propaganda campaign.
>>
>>>KK
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:N7imm.650903$6p1.303756@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> On 8/28/2009 9:12 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:10:34 -0700 (PDT), The Judge
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2489
>>>>>
>>>>> This has the looks of an anti-German propaganda site of doubtful
>>>>> historical validity.
>>>>
>>>> Supported by original documentation.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Gord McFee
>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>
>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2044790 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Aug 30, 10:46 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Aug 30, 8:18 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:e16b65f7-728c-42ab-a3eb-427b11298951@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Aug 28, 9:30 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>> > > messagenews:9e229bed-cb8b-4e27-a656-9039588044d2@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > > > Hi. I've been on this NG for years. I have yet to hear a denier or
>> > > > revisionist justify the murder of children; Jewish or otherwise. If
>> > > > someone could point out where a revisionist stated this, I'd be happy
>> > > > to say I'm wrong.
>>
>> > > Let me ask you then. If children were murdered by the Nazis and you deny
>> > > they were murdered is that akin to justifying the murder?
>>
>> > ???
>>
>> > If a soccer player takes a dive (it happens all the time ) and another
>> > innocent player gets a red card and the team get a penalty and win the match
>> > because of it and the manager of the team of the diving player knows it and
>> > says nothing then he is condoning what the player did! He isnt diving
>> > himself but he is supporting what the player did and is cheating.
>>
>> Here you are assuming that holocaust deniers(let's say they deny the
>> gas chambers)know that there were gas chambers.  But the thing
>> is :they do not know that there were chambers, they doubt the official
>> story very much.  So how are they condoning something which they think
>> never happened.
>> The example you give is of a manager who DOES KNOW that cheating took
>> place.
>
>Holocaust deniers know that 6 million Jews were murdered.

Nonsense. I deny the existence of gods, but certainly not because I
really believe they exist. If I really believed that gods existed,
then I wouldn't express doubt.

As always, you make no sense.

>  They
>pretend otherwise because they are evil people.

There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
in Japan.

The USA has to be the most vile, base, and dishonourable country in
human history.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2044791 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A History of Nazi Germany in Documents
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:53:16 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:pq0m959cdv0a9f8aoc67on4irln2fds6a8@4ax.com...
>>
>> A "document" is a piece of paper, and once it has been in allied
>> hands, it is worthless as "historical proof" of anything. Too many
>> things have been "amended" or even totally fabricated to support the
>> allied propaganda campaign.
>>
>
>Hi-ho. When a a document is seen by someone who is not German, it becomes 
>worthless.

ROTFLAO

The allies did a hell of a lot more than LOOK at the pieces of paper.
The actively massaged the text into something that would be useful for
their postwar propaganda campaign and their show trials.

> That is how revisionists and German nationalists like v. 
>Ebersdorf can deny everything.This is funny as v.E. has been so fond of 
>logic and facts.

I don't deny "everything" and I never have. Germans are not saints,
certainly, but they are no more wicked than their allied opponents
were, and frequently rather less so.

The allies are and were hypocrites. Everything the USA has said during
my lifetime, about places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Chile,
Lebanon, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Panama, Haiti, The
Philippines, or Grenada has been a tissue of lies. If a statement is
issued by Washington, one can be pretty certain that one is looking at
lies and distortions. It is damn unlikely, given the American pattern
of lies since 1776, to view Germany as the sole exception where they
suddenly started telling the truth. 

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2044792 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Canada Jails Nazi
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:57:24 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:bdng959otekuf1jpkiqnjv8hlilqalljgb@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:27:42 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 29, 6:53 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tremaine was jailed under Canadian law and I'm in America, you stupid
>>>> moron.
>>>> The USA has no such laws, you retarded fool.
>>>
>>>If some-one reports kurts hatemail messaging on the group to the
>>>Canadian authorities will he get to share a cell with Tremaine?
>>>Or will they just deport him back to a Germany that has outgrown his
>>>sort?
>>
>> With a name like Tremaine he is unlikely to be German, so why would he
>> be deported there? He is most likely a local.
>
>Pssst!   "Johannes", the reference isn't to Mr. Tremaine.

Pssst, imbecile, why does the paragraph earlier mention Tremaine and
his supposed deportation to Germany if that isn't on the table?

>
>Do try to pay attention.
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2044793 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A History of Nazi Germany in Documents
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:16:02 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 2, 6:59 am, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Hey Eugene how much was withheld from the Germans since 1945. Who has access
>> to all the documentations. it certainly are not the Germans.
>
>And where exactly is Bad Arolsen?

There is nothing NEW there, and there never was. All of the stuff
there had been stolen and transported to the USA. Now, SOME of it has
been returned, but only those documents that support the allied
propaganda version of WW2. There are still thousands of documents
under lock and key from that period, and one can be sure that they are
not locked up because they SUPPORT the allied propaganda picture.

It is the same story as post WW1, where horse pucky such as the
official Lusitania story were the contents of school history books for
decades until the Brits finally came clean some seventy years after
the event and admitted that the "official" version was a fraud.

The same thing will happen eventually with the post WW2 stuff.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2044794 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: absence of mr.ben cramer
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:16:25 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Aug 31, 11:28 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:12:33 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You have freedom to make your racist genocidal hatred posts.
>>
>> That is your province, George, not Heinrich's.
>
>It is my pleasure to point out where the racists and Holocaust deiers
>and other such mentally disturbed are wrong in thought, word and deed.

If you want to see mentally disturbed, George, look no further than
your mirror.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2044795 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a wart before...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:17:31 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>What will the American come up with next. Certainly there is no other nation
>on this planet who is involved in all the warts since 1945. In 1945 I was
>talking to a young Americans soldier about America and their wars. He spoke
>German because his grand parents were Germans in America. Hw said the next
>target will be Russia. The American armoured industries can not be without a
>war.

That is why the USA has been at war against one or more opponents
every year of its miserable existence. The USA is simply bad news and
the world would be a better place without it. May it follow the USSR
into oblivion.

>Kurt Knoll.
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:_NmdnbxXEa7v1wbXnZ2dnUVZ_qZi4p2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "vor den Kopf gestossen" Cross and
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>What will the American come up with next. Certainly there is no other 
>>>nation
>>>on this planet who is involved in all the warts since 1945.
>>
>> Just when you thought he couldn't get any dumber... the
>> Intellectual Adventure of the (previous) Century continues...
>>
>> 163 Statements Illustrating Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll's
>> strict adherence to the highest intellectual standards of Holocaust
>> denial... folks, with intellects like Knoll's to guide them, Holocaust
>> deniers cannot but achieve monumental failures and continuing
>> humiliations:
>>
>> (See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for
>> the first 158 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
>>
>> 159. "What court a courts who dances to the hollow fiddle.
>>     Every normal person knows how arrogant a law society
>>     can be the can screw anyone with impunity.."
>>     , Aug. 14, 2009
>>
>> 160. "Take James basque as an example it took him and others
>>     years to get access to all the records but only did have
>>     access to a few of them."
>>     , August 18, 2009
>>
>> 161. "Presac in german is a blood sausage store this one
>>     in your meadhead." ,
>>     Aug. 22, 2009
>>
>> 162. "He is more than boring he is a bon imbecile."
>>     , Aug. 25, 2009
>>
>> 163. "What will the American come up with next. Certainly
>>     there is no other nation on this planet who is involved
>>     in all the warts since 1945."
>>     , August 30, 2009
>> -- 
>> Who is your choice for the Dumbest celebrity?  George W. Bush
>> holds a commanding lead at 24.1%, Kurt Knoll is second at
>> 22.8% & Paris Hilton 3rd with 16.6%. VOTE NOW, VOTE OFTEN!
>> Vote Now: http://squidoo.com/think-you-are-stupid-eh 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2044796 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:49:11 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Der heilige Geist durfte die heilige Maria ficken. Ein Kloster mit nur 
>Männern ist eine Massen fickerei. Kann ja sein das der heilige Geist noch 
>keine Frau gefickt. Bei uns in Bayern von wo ich her bin vermachen sie ihr 
>vermögen der Kirche. Und dann hatten sie den Tetzel aus Nürnberg der jeden 
>seine Sünde vergab das ist wen derjenige jede menge Geld an die Kirche gab.

Die katholische Kirche ist reinster Unsinn und Aberglaube. Es ist sehr
unwahrscheinlich daß es überhaupt Götter gibt. 



>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Norbert Müller"  wrote in message 
>news:e2ef5$4a9c0e29$5471499a$14797@news.chello.at...
>> Truthseeker schrieb:
>>> Hast du immer noch mit deinen Rabiner ein verhältis.
>>
>> Die sind ja durchwegs verheiratet. Kritischer ist es bei den Katholiken 
>> (ich bin einer, und muß traurig ansehen, was da so alles passiert bei den 
>> Pfarrern, die nicht heiraten dürfen).
>>
>> mfg, NM
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2044797 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:53:31 +0200, "Norbert Müller"
 wrote:

>Truthseeker schrieb:
>> Hast du immer noch mit deinen Rabiner ein verhältis.
>
>Die sind ja durchwegs verheiratet. Kritischer ist es bei den Katholiken (ich 
>bin einer, und muß traurig ansehen, was da so alles passiert bei den 
>Pfarrern, die nicht heiraten dürfen).

Jetzt ist es besser verständlich, da Sie ja schon Mitglied von einem
Kult sind, wird es auch leichter stehen Mitglied anderer Aberglauben
zu sein.

>
>mfg, NM
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:19 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 01:08:29 +0200, "Norbert Müller"
 wrote:

>Truthseeker schrieb:
>> Der heilige Geist durfte die heilige Maria ficken. Ein Kloster mit nur
>> Männern ist eine Massen fickerei. Kann ja sein das der heilige Geist
>> noch keine Frau gefickt. Bei uns in Bayern von wo ich her bin
>> vermachen sie ihr vermögen der Kirche. Und dann hatten sie den Tetzel
>> aus Nürnberg der jeden seine Sünde vergab das ist wen derjenige jede
>> menge Geld an die Kirche gab. Kurt Knoll.
>
>Von wem wird denn deine Tochter gefickt, dass sie eine Nazi-Hure genannt 
>wird?

Sind Sie als Arschloch geboren, oder haben Sie diesen Titel erst mit
Mühe erarbeitet?


>
>Wenn du damals 12 Jahre alt warst, hat dich die Goebbel'sche Massenhypnose 
>ja ganz schön mitgenommen, dass du sogar deine Tochter noch im Nazi-Glauben 
>erzogen hast.
>
>Selber Schuld, Knoll!
>
>
>mfg, NM
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:19 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Calley apologizes
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:39:51 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>That's nice.  What about the big shot criminals who ordered free fire
>zones, carpet bombings?Thousands of innocent lives were destroyed.

Given "America-think", it follows that nobody besides Americans even
count as human, so their existence or non-existence is of no account.

That attitude is one of the reasons that I utterly despise the USA,
its bloody murderous history, and most of the things it allegedly
stands for, which are in any case frauds.

>
>http://therecord.blogs.com/andrewstikilounge/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:19 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:19:59 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Norbert Müller"  wrote in message 
>news:eed33$4a9c57fb$5471499a$21864@news.chello.at...
>> Truthseeker schrieb:
>>> Der heilige Geist durfte die heilige Maria ficken. Ein Kloster mit nur
>>> Männern ist eine Massen fickerei. Kann ja sein das der heilige Geist
>>> noch keine Frau gefickt. Bei uns in Bayern von wo ich her bin
>>> vermachen sie ihr vermögen der Kirche. Und dann hatten sie den Tetzel
>>> aus Nürnberg der jeden seine Sünde vergab das ist wen derjenige jede
>>> menge Geld an die Kirche gab. Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> Von wem wird denn deine Tochter gefickt, dass sie eine Nazi-Hure genannt 
>> wird?
>>
>> Wenn du damals 12 Jahre alt warst, hat dich die Goebbel'sche Massenhypnose 
>> ja ganz schön mitgenommen, dass du sogar deine Tochter noch im 
>> Nazi-Glauben erzogen hast.
>>
>> Selber Schuld, Knoll!
>>
>>
>> mfg, NM
>Meine Tochter spricht nicht deutsch weiß auch nichts von Deutschland. Ich 
>wohne damals in Geiselwind franken dort gab es auch keine Radio Sender von 
>Göbels hatte ich das erste mal noch dem kriege gehört. was ist denn Nazi 
>Glauben. Niemand lügt besser wie ein Jude du muhst ja Bescheid wiesen.
>Kurt Knoll.'
>>
>> 
>
Müller ist offensichtlich ein armes Arschloch mit einer sehr niedrigen
Bildung. Es ist nicht die Zeit für eine Antwort wert.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:20 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:23:54 +0100, "Alex Trift"
 wrote:

>
>"Norbert Müller"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
>news:7a33$4a9ba767$5471499a$3790@news.chello.at...
>> Aber wozu schreib ich dir Dummerl das, du willst ja eh nur provozieren - 
>> fragt sich wen, denn so dumm wie du ist hier kaum jemand.
>
>Der Kurt und sein dösiger Bruder haben nicht umsonst Einreiseverbot nach 
>Deutschland.

That isn't surprising. He is probably barred from a few other
despotisms besides Germany as well. Germany hasn't changed that much
since the NS period, except that it is now just a a different group of
people being persecuted. In the 18th century there was the
"Hexenverfolgung", in the 19th century there was the
"Demagogenverfolgung", in the 20th century there was the
"Judenverfolgung", now in the 21st century they see right-wing
extremists under every bed and behind every door, much like the late
unlamented Senator McCarthy in the USA. The one constant thing about
Germany is that they always have some sort of "Verfolgung" against
somebody.

Germany has always been the kind of country where one can say whatever
one likes as long as it doesn't contradict the powers that be. Nothing
has changed in centuries.

>
>Alex 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2044802 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leading Revisionist Scholar Says Americans Have More Warts Than Anyone Else!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:09:25 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:a7qdnSPMzpBbzAHXnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>What will the American come up with next. Certainly there is no other 
>>>nation
>>>on this planet who is involved in all the warts since 1945. In 1945 I was
>>
> How did you determine that Americans have been more involved with
> wars than anyone else, Frau Pikelhaube? Did you commission a
>> medical survey?

There is poor stupid American mcvay showing his ignorance again. The
USA has been involved in war against one or more opponents every year
of its existence. The previous record holders for the number of wars
were the peace-loving British and the peace-loving French, but the
peace-loving Americans have eclipsed them in a dramatically shorter
time.

The USA is sheer shit, and possibly the most disgusting political
creation in human history.

How can an utter ignoramus such as mcvay presume to lecture others on
history when he clearly understands so little himself?

>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>> 163 Statements Illustrating Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll's
>> strict adherence to the highest intellectual standards of Holocaust
>> denial... folks, with intellects like Knoll's to guide them, Holocaust
>> deniers cannot but achieve monumental failures and continuing
>> humiliations:
>>
>> (See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for
>> the first 158 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
>>
>> 159. "What court a courts who dances to the hollow fiddle.
>>     Every normal person knows how arrogant a law society
>>     can be the can screw anyone with impunity.."
>>     , Aug. 14, 2009
>>
>> 160. "Take James basque as an example it took him and others
>>     years to get access to all the records but only did have
>>     access to a few of them."
>>     , August 18, 2009
>>
>> 161. "Presac in german is a blood sausage store this one
>>     in your meadhead." ,
>>     Aug. 22, 2009
>>
>> 162. "He is more than boring he is a bon imbecile."
>>     , Aug. 25, 2009
>>
>> 163. "What will the American come up with next. Certainly
>>     there is no other nation on this planet who is involved
>>     in all the warts since 1945."
>>     , August 30, 2009
>> -- 
>> "We all know it but they will have us believe they have absolutely no
>> influence on governments. Not believing it would be anti emetic."
>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar)
>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2044803 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Quick Joke
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On Tue,  1 Sep 2009 05:36:52 +0200 (CEST), "Non scrivetemi"
 wrote:

>How many jews can you fit in a car?
>Two in the front seat, three in the back and six million in the ashtray.
>
>(They never found any ashes from the six million dead. At any "death" camp.)

Most of the evidence consists of truckloads of paper typed on American
typewriters.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2044804 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: absence of mr.ben cramer
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:21:38 +1200, "Petito"  wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>:: On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:45:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>:: wrote:
>::
>::: "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>::: news:4a9a754d$0$2102$2e0edba0@news.tweakdsl.nl...
>:::: it is about time that ben cramer is coming back to this groups
>:::: asap since this group is now getting boring as hell
>:::
>::: The disappearance of "Mr. Cramer" from Usenet was suspiciously
>::: co-incidental with the conviction of Mr. F. Toben (May 2009).
>::: Mr. Toben has just very recently ( Aug 13, 2009) lost his appeal of
>::: his conviction and has been taken into custody to serve his
>::: sentence.   If he's good, he might be out by mid-November.
>:::
>::: It appears likely that there's a strong link between Mr. Toben and
>::: "Mr. Cramer".
>::
>:: That is pretty flimsy "evidence" along the same lines of the rest of
>:: the crap you post on this newsgroup.
>::
>:::
>::: It's unlikely that "Mr. Cramer" will be posting again before the
>::: release of Mr. Toben;  and after that, since repeats of the
>::: activities that put Mr. Toben in jail will probably prompt further
>::: prosecutions and penalties, it may be a while before you get your
>::: wish.
>:::
>::: On the other hand, "Mr. Cramer" may have been playing the same game
>::: that Hal Turner now claims to have been playing, and been an
>::: informant for law enforcement agencies; with the conviction, the
>::: task is complete and the persona is no longer required.
>:::
>::: I guess we'll have to wait to find out.
>:::
>::: -pk
>
>I have reliable evidence that Ben Cramer and Toben are indeed sharing a 
>cell.

Can you post it, so I can make up my own mind as to how reliable and
believable it is, or do I have to take your word for it without
question? 

>
>--?
>PB1952@gmail.com 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2044809 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What to do with the Jews?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:16:39 -0700 (PDT), cornholio
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 3:55 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>       By Andrew Winkler, a German-Australian blogger and founder of 'The
>> Rebel'
>>
>>       IsraHell on the other hand was created to take control of the
>> strategic Middle-Eastern oil reserves. Given the vital importance of oil for
>> modern military, an off-the mill colony wouldn't do the trick. Millions of
>> European Jews had to be conned into migrating to Middle-East. The most
>> efficient way of doing so was to not only make them feel unwelcome in their
>> country of residence, but fear for their life. Rothschild puppet Hitler did
>> an awesome job at all.
>>
>
>Israel was "created to take control of the strategic Middle-Eastern
>oil reserves" eh?
>Take control for whom? How come the "strategic Middle-Eastern oil
>reserves" are
>still in control of the islamonazis after 60 years have passed?

Think again, Cornholer. Most of the Middle Eastern oil reserves are
controlled by corporations situated in the USA. The despotic Shah was
installed in Iran because he was a despot that served American
interests, and a democratic government in Iran was toppled by the
Americans because the Iranians had these romantic notions of having
something to say in their own country.

>
>>       I don't think that the population of any country should be forced to
>> accept millions of those supremacists in their midst, even if their
>> government has been conned or blackmailed into doing so. The best solution I
>> have come across so far is to transfer them to the autonomous Jewish
>> Republic of Birobidzhan of the former Soviet Union. It's the only place in
>> the world where they would be truly welcome and close enough to the original
>> homeland of the AshkeNazis, the grasslands of Mongolia where they departed
>> over 1500 years ago as part Attila's hordes
>
>Interesting concept, but Jerusalem has been the spiritual/religious
>home of
>the Jewish people since forever, somewhat like Soddy Barbaria is to
>the
>muslimes.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2044810 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What to do with the Jews?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:55:51 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Who is in control of the Iraqi oil right now.

Cornholer only sees what Cornholer wants to see. He always wears his
Zionist glasses, so he regularly babbles on about Islamonazis, despite
the fact that no such creature has ever existed nor is it ever likely
to exist, but it makes for good hot air.

>kk
>
>"cornholio"  wrote in message 
>news:644781f0-7f90-44f3-a3d9-f02bd793a0e3@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 1, 3:55 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> By Andrew Winkler, a German-Australian blogger and founder of 'The
>> Rebel'
>>
>> IsraHell on the other hand was created to take control of the
>> strategic Middle-Eastern oil reserves. Given the vital importance of oil 
>> for
>> modern military, an off-the mill colony wouldn't do the trick. Millions of
>> European Jews had to be conned into migrating to Middle-East. The most
>> efficient way of doing so was to not only make them feel unwelcome in 
>> their
>> country of residence, but fear for their life. Rothschild puppet Hitler 
>> did
>> an awesome job at all.
>>
>
>Israel was "created to take control of the strategic Middle-Eastern
>oil reserves" eh?
>Take control for whom? How come the "strategic Middle-Eastern oil
>reserves" are
>still in control of the islamonazis after 60 years have passed?
>
>> I don't think that the population of any country should be forced to
>> accept millions of those supremacists in their midst, even if their
>> government has been conned or blackmailed into doing so. The best solution 
>> I
>> have come across so far is to transfer them to the autonomous Jewish
>> Republic of Birobidzhan of the former Soviet Union. It's the only place in
>> the world where they would be truly welcome and close enough to the 
>> original
>> homeland of the AshkeNazis, the grasslands of Mongolia where they departed
>> over 1500 years ago as part Attila's hordes
>
>Interesting concept, but Jerusalem has been the spiritual/religious
>home of
>the Jewish people since forever, somewhat like Soddy Barbaria is to
>the
>muslimes. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2045156 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:56:12 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> targeting civilians.
>
>You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>But it's still garlic.
>White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon and so is
>napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.

The nature of the bombs tell the story. The usual mix for an allied
attack on a German urban centre was 1:20:120, meaning one air-mine
weighing up to 22,000 lb descending on a parachute intended to clear
away the stone roof shingles; twenty steel-jacketed 1000 lb bombs
intended to break the water mains under the streets and also to
intimidate the fire-fighting crews to stay sheltered; 120 incendiaries
were the last part of the mix, intended to set the damaged structures
on fire. A German city, the allies found, was almost impossible to
"blow up", but with considerable effort it was possible to set it on
fire, excepting of course industrial areas and suburban areas.

The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
methods. The Americans, for example, built replicas of downtown
apartment blocks and other neighbourhoods in Hamburg to see
experimentally what methods would set them on fire most effectively.
There has never been anything clean or noble about the allied war
effort.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2045157 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Quick Joke
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:06:05 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Non scrivetemi"  wrote in message 
>news:9a83b0ab377f1fc2f32ae86b6cc85b53@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...
>
>> (They never found any ashes from the six million dead. At any "death" 
>> camp.)
>
>
>Yes, they did, but you aren't interested in the truth, are you?

There isn't very much hard evidence for the holocaust story, which is
exactly why the mcvay bunch keep dredging up paper from the post-WW2
show trials at Nuremberg.

The "proof" for the story consists almost exclusively of paper in the
form of "testimonies" or "confessions" (generally beaten out of
people).

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:22 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>>
>> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>> in Japan.
>
>The A-bombs struck military targets

That is utter crap and even you cannot be so stupid as to not realize
that a nuclear bomb is an attack on an entire city, by definition a
war crime, and not an attack on a "military target".

Your simple-minded reasoning would be the same as justifying the mass
murder of the five million residents of Manhattan in order to take out
a small factory that makes swimming goggles that could conceivably be
used by military divers somewhere.

Your arguments are preposterous and amount to hate speech.

> and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.

This is more horseshit that has been conclusively disproven by
numerous authors.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:23 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knolls seventh lie for Wednesday, September 2, 2009
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:40:26 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Instead of spell checking why don't you analyze your own slimy character.

I don't believe that George realizes how slimy he really is.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"George"  wrote in message 
>news:e73a1488-7a57-4283-bd2a-e5f17dc44253@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 3, 8:52 am, TallHenry  wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>> > The altering shorting of posting from others
>>
>> What "altering shorting", you ancient sack of shit?
>
>It's a dumb nazi without language skills who wants to be, indeed
>demands that we laugh at and insult it.
>It is the 70th anniversary of the nazi attack on Poland that began the
>Second World War. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2045160 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knolls seventh lie for Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:27:40 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>It is the 70th anniversary of the nazi attack on Poland that began the
>Second World War.

The allies had planned WW2 long before that. Poland was simply a thin
excuse, something along the same lines as the "Gulf of Tonkin"
incident that gave the excuse to attack North Vietnam.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2045161 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:10:11 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>
>That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.

Of course they did. The target for the allies was people, and other
things were the collateral damage.
>
>What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>targeting civilians.

All the attacks on major German cities were against the medieval cores
of those cities where houses are close together making them easier to
set on fire. There are no factories, military installations, etc. in
the medieval core, where houses of 500 years to 1000 years are the
norm.

Wealthy areas were not attacked, since the houses are too far apart,
and the suburbs were not attacked because they are built to modern
fire codes and almost impossible to set on fire.

Berlin, for example, is a relatively young city at 750, and it
successfully defied all the efforts of the allies to set the city on
fire along the model of Hamburg, Dresden, and many other locations.





From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2045162 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: dumbass barry and his theory of collateral damage goes down the  drain
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 06:07:47 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>Lest we forget...
>http://www.whale.to/b/walsh1.html
>some excerpts:
>
>{ it is a little known fact that allied air attacks on France alone
>resulted in far more deaths and injuries than from German attacks}
>
>{Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan’s only two Christian cities come first
>to mind when one considers total incineration from the air but the
>destruction of those great cities, along with their inhabitants, pale
>into relative insignificance when compared with the greater and more
>sustained destruction of middle Europe’s great cities. American Martin
>Caidin, one of the world’s foremost experts on the effects of bombing
>said, "Neither Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffering from the smashing
>blows of nuclear explosions could match the utter hell of
>Hamburg." (See end notes on Martin Caidin).}
>
>{Coventry of course is always thrown up when apologists seek to
>justify the saturation bombing of European cities. Notwithstanding the
>fact that it has since been proved that the bombing of Coventry, like
>the sinking of the Lusitania, was deliberately set up as 'a means to
>an end', it might be remembered in terms of proportion that Coventry
>lost 100 acres through bombing. In just ten terrible days in the
>summer of 1943 British bombers gutted more than six thousand acres of
>Hamburg.}
>
>{THE GRIMMEST DEATH CHOICE
>Those who made it to the water found the safety they had sought so
>desperately - but incredibly, some faced a choice that stuns the mind
>with horror. Water prevents phosphorous jelly from burning because it
>denies the chemical the one thing it needs to burn; oxygen. Those with
>the blazing chemical on their arms, legs and their bodies were able to
>douse the flames by submerging the burning areas. But many had the
>blazing phosphorous jelly on their faces and heads. Certainly the
>spluttering chemicals went out as the victims ducked their heads
>beneath the water, but the moment they brought their heads up again to
>break the surface and take a breath of air, the phosphorous burst into
>flames again immediately. And so the victims were faced with the
>choice. Death by drowning or death by burning; men, women and
>children. While others watched sick and despairingly, the victims of
>phosphorous on faces and heads thrashed wildly in the brackish waters,
>screaming with pain and frustration. Spluttering and choking, they
>alternatively burned or drowned.
>
>The American scientist and expert Martin Caidin spent many years
>trying to get details on the use of phosphorous by both the allies,
>and in his own words he has 'met with less than the success required
>by the historian to include the episode in a documentary book.' He
>noted:
>
>"Perhaps the solution to the total absence of any reference in
>official (post war) German documents is explained in the story told to
>me by a U.S. Army officer, who learned that portions of the documents
>on the after effects of the Hamburg attacks were ordered to be
>destroyed, and that all reference to the surviving victims of
>phosphorous bombs stricken forever from the records."
>
>A copy of the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey does however concede that
>"Phosphorous burns were not infrequent." An a ‘British source’ (The
>Night Hamburg Died, Martin Caidin) added: "Phosphorous was used
>"because of its demonstrated ability to depress the morale of the
>Germans."}

That was the British hope, but reality did not pan out that way.

>etc.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:24 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Jews who sell to Arabs are enemies'
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:09:40 -0700 (PDT), cornholio
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 10:57 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> A Jew who sells land to an Arab in Israel should not be allowed to lead
>> prayers in synagogue, should not be given the right to make a blessing
>> during the Torah reading, should not be counted among the quorum needed for
>> public prayers and is considered an abettor to the enemies of Israel,
>> according to a halachic decision issued on Monday night by a group of rabbis
>> calling themselves "The New Sanhedrin."
>>
>> Prof. Hillel Weiss, a spokesman for the Sanhedrin, said that while the
>> seller of land to Arabs is helping the Jewish people's enemies, this does
>> not mean that he or she is guilty of a sin that entails the death penalty.
>> Rabbis who participated in a meeting that took place in the capital's Pisgat
>> Ze'ev neighborhood on Monday evening included Safed Chief Rabbi Shmuel
>> Eliyahu, Rabbi Ya'acov Yosef, son of Shas mentor Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, and
>> former United Torah Judaism MK Rabbi Menachem Porush, 93.
>>
>> In their decision, the Sanhedrin explained the historical background. "In
>> recent years a phenomenon has arisen in which Arabs are buying houses and
>> land in Jewish neighborhoods and in this way are gradually buying up these
>> neighborhoods."
>>
>> Sources connected with the Sanhedrin said that the halachic decision was a
>> response to sales of land and apartments in French Hill, Pisgat Ze'ev and
>> other Jerusalem neighborhoods to Arabs.
>>
>> The security barrier which is being completed in Jerusalem and which
>> separates Palestinian and Jewish areas might be part of the reason for the
>> rise in demand by Arabs for homes in Jewish neighborhoods. Many Arabs do not
>> want to be stuck on the wrong side of the barrier.
>>
>> Eliyahu, who said that he did not sign the halachic decision, explained that
>> the phenomenon of Arabs buying Jewish-owned land had grown as a result of
>> European and Saudi funding supporting the move.
>>
>> "Every community has the right to use sanctions against members who sell
>> land to Arabs," said Eliyahu.
>>
>> "The influx of Arabs to Jewish neighborhoods lowers the value of homes and
>> introduces negative cultural influences. A Jew who facilitates this is
>> transgressing the commandment to love one's neighbor like oneself, even if
>> he only rents to them."
>>
>> Eliyahu said that in his own city of Safed, a Jew who sold to an Arab was
>> boycotted by the community. "He owned a grocery store and people boycotted
>> it."
>>
>> Halacha forbids the sale of land in Israel owned by Jews to non-Jews.
>> However, there is nothing in Jewish law that prevents someone who does so
>> from participating in prayers.
>
>The above all sounds good to me. I wouldn't sell a donkey to a muslime
>pig.

LOL

You're such an ignorant jerk, Cornholer, that you're almost funny.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2045307 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:51:35 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Go and write another fiction oder gehe sterben truth is something you have 
>never known.
>kk
>
>"someone-who-knows"  wrote in message 
>news:h7qib9$dn9$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>> All the attacks on major German cities were against the medieval cores
>>> of those cities where houses are close together making them easier to
>>> set on fire.
>>
>> Tough shit.  Next time,  don't start wars of extermination
>> against peaceful nations.  That too hard to understand? 
>
It isn't hard to understand, just false. Britain and the USA hold the
world record for the number of wars, so they can hardly be accused of
being "peaceful nations". WW2 was launched by Britain with reluctant
participation by France. The USA lurked in the diplomatic background
egging them on in the hope of being able to pick up the pieces after
Britain and France were destroyed. That American calculation actually
worked out.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:25 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:8e375373-1fe0-4edc-a9c3-4f7ed9144c99@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities
>> > > > based on
>> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted
>> > > > Children!
>>
>> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > That is incorrect. The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > What you are referring to is collateral damage. That is anything but
>> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> [quote]
>> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> But it's still garlic.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> This isn't a question of type token distinction.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
>> Take "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" - how many words there ? Three? or
>> Ten? If there are ten words there how is one "rose" different to the other?
>> If all roses are the same how can you tell?
>>
>> In addition:
>> Onions are part of the lily family too!
>> You are just saying that BOTH onions and garlic are still lilies even
>> thought they are part of the sub group garlic and onion!
>
>> So how come "blanket bombing" and murder can't BOTH be "killing people" and
>> one be a sub group of "direct targeting" and the other "collateral damage"
>>
>
>Collateral damage refers to unavoidable civilian deaths when a
>military target has been attacked.
>Taking Dresden as an example, civilians were directly targeted.

You are absolutely correct. The refugees from Silesia and West Prussia
WERE the targets.

>
>> [quote]
>> White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon and so is
>> napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> Actually (though I believe it was used as a weapon) WP ISN'T since the
>> Falluja case since it would be illegal and the US would have to have charged
>> the people who used it. S it is it is not listed as a Weapon in the part of
>> the Weapons Treaty that the Us signed but it is listed in the Protocol which
>> they didn't sign, Napalm is listed in the part they signed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2045309 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:20:03 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 4, 6:40 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>
>> I'm not a holocaust denier.  I am a doubter of the 'official' version
>> of the holocaust.
>>
> Yeah Riiiiight
>Your rabid anti Jewish position and posts just reinforce the fact that
>you are a nazi apologist..

A Zionist apologist criticizing an alleged Nazi apologist is more than
a little hypocritical. Why are the same actions excusable for Zionists
but wicked for Nazis?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:25 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 10:12 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:65ae3289-c5e8-48dd-8c28-d273bbda53f2@y21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 3, 1:56 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>> > messagenews:bfd60706-ad4f-44a5-8fd0-aab323bf5447@r5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 2, 10:37 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > > > > Really? Funny how the quote you supply (if indeed it is true which
>> > > > > you
>> > > > > have
>> > > > > not shown since ther is no reference to the original message ID
>> > > > > given)
>> > > > > in no way supports that contention. Have you got ANY evidence of Mc
>> > > > > Vay
>> > > > > calling for the murder of someone?
>>
>> > > > [quote]
>> > > > McVay justified the murder of civilians. Is that not enough for you?
>> > > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > > No actually it isn't.
>> > > > Suppose I say "the Moon is made of cheese" Is that not enough for you
>> > > > to
>> > > > believe me?
>>
>> > > [quote]
>> > > Of course not.
>> > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > Well ther you go! you have double standards!
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > I don't have double standards. I have overwhelming evidence that the
>> > moon can't be made of cheese.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > But NO EVIDENCE AT ALL of Mc Vay calling for someones murder as you
>> > claimed
>> > and expect people to believe you.
>> > See? - double standards!
>>
>> [quote]
>> McVay never called for anyone's murder that I know of.  He condoned
>> the bombing and burning of civilians.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> Which is a direct CONTRADICTION of you above words scroll up tot he top of
>> this message where you stated:
>>  McVay justified the murder of civilians. Is that not enough for you?
>> [/end qyuote]
>>
>> And in Message-ID:
>> 
>> You stated:
>> [quote]
>> Your statement does not justify what 'i wanna be a willnot' put
>> forth.  The justification of the murder of children.
>>      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> [/end quote]
>>
>> Note the underlined bit???
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > I'm not arguing against "Nazis justified the murder of people." Of
>> > course they did.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > So you agree that the Nazis called for the murder of Jews and other
>> > people?
>> > You agree it was part of their policy?
>>
>> [quote]
>> In war, murders are committed.  According to the laws of probability.
>> I don't know if it was official policy to murder all of the Jews, but
>> I do know that they committed non-voluntary euthenasia etc.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> Funny how you contradict yourself but you also display double styandards!
>> You want to criticise Mc Vay on the unproven assertion that he justified war
>> deaths and then you also claim that it is okay for you to make a similar
>> claim because in War murders are committed and that is acceptable.
>>
>
>I don't contradict myself, and as of yet, McVay(to his credit)has not
>denied that he condoned the murder of German civilians.

Imbecile mcvay has never been about morality but about partisanship
with his totally one-sided diatribes. In his simple-minded view,
allied atrocities are good atrocities while German ones are bad.

>
>> But at least you admit you know the nazis deliberatley murdered people.
>>
>> > I must admit this is surprising to me.
>>
>> [quote]
>> ?Why?
>> [/quote]
>>
>> Because as a Holocaust denier it would be unlikely for you to admit the
>> Nazis murdered anyone especially Jews! But yu now admit that the Nazis did
>> in fact target Jews and planned to kill them. I find that surprising.
>>
>
>I'm not a holocaust denier.  I am a doubter of the 'official' version
>of the holocaust.
>
>
>>
>>
>> > > > [quote]
>> > > > He said that the Germans got what they deserved.
>> > > > [/quote]
>>
>> > > > No . YOU ASSERT without reference that he stated that. You gave no
>> > > > reference
>> > > > to any message from where you claim he stated that.
>>
>> [snip]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2045311 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knolls seventh lie for Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:57:55 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 4, 11:12 am, I'll Always Be 3/09/09
> wrote:
>> In article
>> <3jd0a5dbljb1crptght8jgifslav9mo0vq@4ax.
>> com>,
>>  Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>
>>   wrote:
>> > On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:40:26 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >Instead of spell checking why don't you analyze your own slimy character.
>>
>> > I don't believe that George realizes how slimy he really is.
>>
>> Fortunately it doesn't take much to
>> understand how slimy you are.
>
>Of course to a nazi any-one producing evidence that their cause has
>long gone the way of the dinosaur has to be attacked in order that
>they can pretend their fanatic racist beliefs have merit.

As a fanatical Zionist, racism is your province, not mine.

>
>I wouldn't associate slim with a nazi. The slime is at least 10 IQ
>points ahead

Right-wing movements are not my thing, including the NS movement that
was before my time, but when it comes to intelligence, they were
probably one hell of a lot smarter than you are George. You are just a
used car salesman dressed as a partisan propagandist.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2045312 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knolls seventh lie for Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:19:32 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"George"  wrote in message 
>news:fadf80c2-6945-4ab1-a991-fa48ea93eccf@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 4, 11:12 am, I'll Always Be 3/09/09
> wrote:
>> In article
>> <3jd0a5dbljb1crptght8jgifslav9mo0vq@4ax.
>> com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:40:26 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >Instead of spell checking why don't you analyze your own slimy 
>> > >character.
>>
>> > I don't believe that George realizes how slimy he really is.
>>
>> Fortunately it doesn't take much to
>> understand how slimy you are.
>
>Of course to a nazi any-one producing evidence that their cause has
>long gone the way of the dinosaur has to be attacked in order that
>they can pretend their fanatic racist beliefs have merit.
>
>I wouldn't associate slim with a nazi. The slime is at least 10 IQ
>points ahead
>
>Take a good look at your self. People are curious does this make all of them 
>Nazis. Analyze your own character first and engage your brain.

That paradigm presupposes that George has a brain, an unproven and
probably unwarranted assumption.

>Kurt Knoll.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2045313 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier Irving 'expert' on WWII
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:29:55 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 4, 12:37 am, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Anyone who exposes the Jewish version of histories are holocaust deniers.
>
>Sadly for such things as kurt its the history of the many nations who,
>70 years ago, were forced to send their young men and women into
>danger to prevent the nazis from taking the world over

LOL

The "taking over the world" crap is simple-minded American propaganda.
The war aims of the National Socialists amounted to simple survival
against an endless host of merciless enemies.

>and inflicting
>their evil regime upon freedom.

The USA has never been about "freedom" either then or now. The USA is
about exploitation, greed, and looting. The "fruit" of the allied
victory is a dying planet and the looming extinction of humanity. WW2
brought freedom to nobody, but took it away from billions.

>Success was bought but at the cost of about 80,000,000 lives.

The highest estimates I have seen for WW2 are 60 million, but then
exaggeration is your forté.

>At the very recent 70th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Poland

Ah yes, the same Poland that was a fascist dictatorship at the time of
the Soviet-German invasion where only the German participation was an
issue. So concerned were the "noble" allies about Polish independence
that the entire country was simply handed over to Stalin at the end of
WW2, so that its citizens could enjoy a Communist dictatorship after
their fascist experiences.

> the
>German Prime Minister

There is no such creature and there never has been. You are showing
typical American ignorance of the world around them, other than as
something to rob and exploit.

> once again apologised for the evil the nazis had
>done in Germanys name.

Poland was a thief in possession of stolen German property. Germany
had/has ever right of recovery.

>kurt is, like so many neonazis deep in denial and blame their
>inadequacies upon these  who are their betters

Kurt is not a neo-Nazi, since that is an American phenomenon known as
Republicanism, and you are in no way, shape or form Kurt's "better".
You are a insane partisan simpleton.

>
>
>kurtsie boy, get treatment. You are one very sick puppy


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2045314 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 2
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:34:58 +0200, Basil  wrote:

>X-NO-ARCHIVE: Yes
>
>nice to see you again!
>evereting its ok, but: the 2 world  war its over. OVER! any new 
>problems, new subiects?

Poor mcvay is permanently stuck in a totally irrelevant time-warp
between 1933 and 1945.

>
>Ken McVay schrieb:
>> [Follow-ups set]
>>
>> 1941
>>
>> Police Regiment South reports shooting 45 Jews. (Browning, 17)
>>
>> 1943
>>
>> Final liquidation of the Tarnow ghetto in Poland begins.
>> Although there is some Jewish resistance, eight thousand
>> Jews are deported to Auschwitz, and two thousand to the
>> Plaszow concentration camp in Cracow. (USHMM 1993, 43)
>>
>> Albert Speer, armaments minister and Hitler's favorite
>> architect, is named head of Germany's Four-Year Plan and
>> proceeds to increase German war production dramatically,
>> greatly expanding the use of forced labor (from
>> concentration camps and conquered populations) to accomplish
>> this goal. (Ibid.)
>>
>> The Hungarian parliament adopts a law providing for
>> expropriation of Jewish-owned property. (Ibid.)
>>
>> 1944
>>
>> A transport from the Lodz ghetto arrives at Auschwitz; 393
>> men are selected for labor, and the remainder of the
>> deportees are gassed. (USHMM 1994, 58)
>>
>>                          Work Cited
>>                               
>> Browning, Christopher R. Ordinary Men: Reserve Police
>>    Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. New York: HarperCollins, 1992
>>
>> USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum). Fifty
>>    Years Ago: Revolt Amid the Darkness: Days of Remembrance,
>>    April 18-25, 1993. Washington, D.C.: 1993
>>                               
>> USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum). Fifty
>>    Years Ago: Darkness Before Dawn: Days of Remembrance, April
>>    3-10, 1994. Washington, D.C.: 1994
>>   


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2045315 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: on line anti semitism in holland
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:20:05 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>Virulent anti-Semitic content thrives on a Dutch social media website used 
>by nearly half of the entire population of Holland, according to a report 
>released Thursday. Yet, many of the online instigators appear to be 
>Dutch-speaking Arabs.
>The report, produced by investigators from Yad VaShem, the Dutch-language 
>Israel Facts Monitorgroup and the Network on Anti-Semitism based in the 
>Netherlands, was provided to all the political parties in the Netherlands, 
>as well as to members of the Dutch government. As the Internet is becoming 
>an increasingly important and influential facet of Dutch life, the 
>investigators are hoping to provide some insight into how it is used in the 
>Netherlands to propagate anti-Israel rhetoric and anti-Semitic views.
>
>"Anti-Semitism and hatred toward Israel containing anti-Semitic content is a 
>common phenomenon on the Internet in the Netherlands," the report declares. 
>"Remarks which were unthinkable only ten years ago are now common practice 
>and do not seem to raise eyebrows anymore." In fact, after three months of 
>regular monitoring, the investigators concluded, "The climate in which the 
>public debate about Israel and the Middle East conflict is taking place on 
>the Internet is deteriorating."
>
>Titled "Anti-Israel and anti-Semitic activity on the Internet in the 
>Netherlands"

Anti-Israel and anti-Semitic are two totally different things that the
Zionists are trying to conflate to blunt criticism of the criminal and
murderous neo-Israel and its Zionist masters.




>, the report presents examples and trends of anti-Israel blood 
>libels, violent anti-Semitic hate speech and, simultaneously, Holocaust 
>denial, smearing Israelis as Nazis, and calls for returning Jews to the 
>death camps. For the purpose of gauging online Dutch social media, the 
>investigators monitored closed and open groups on the Facebook-like Hyves 
>social networking website, which can claim around nine million members, and 
>the talkback section of de Volkskrant, one of the leading newspapers in 
>Holland.
>
>Among the public groups on Hyves, there are 35 groups that the report 
>defines as either "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel". The majority of these 
>groups, according to the investigators, "are run by young Arab immigrants or 
>descendants of Arab immigrants living in the Netherlands." While the most 
>popular anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian groups have several thousands of 
>members, the largest pro-Israel Hyves forum has 900.
>
>"Posts which call for killing Jews are quite common. Others contain calls to 
>burn Israeli flags. We also noticed public calls for Hitler to 'finish his 
>job' or 'to gas the Jews'," the report explains, adding that the forums also 
>host various libels against Israel and Jews. Perhaps more seriously, a 
>pro-Palestinian group called "The Jihad Fighters" openly praises suicide 
>bombers who target civilians.
>
>While Hyves user rules forbid racist remarks and abuse can be reported, the 
>report concludes that "the alert system that is supposed to stop racist 
>comments does not stop anti-Semitic remarks and posts, nor does it stop 
>outright hatred towards Israel."
>
>De Volkskrant is a respected left-leaning Dutch newspaper which publishes 
>Israel-related opinion articles online on a fairly regular basis. The report 
>on Netherlands anti-Semitism noted that "an average of 300 [talkback] 
>reactions is normal for these articles, compared with fewer than 100 for 
>other articles." The newspaper's website, visited by more than 200,000 
>visitors each month, has an opinion section that is fairly "evenhanded", 
>according to the investigators.
>
>While there were no outright calls for death to the Jews or similar 
>talkbacks, the report said, anti-Semitic content was found in eight out of 
>nine online discussions. Unlike Hyve, De Volkskrant was careful to follow up 
>on complaints and often removed openly anti-Semitic or hate content.
>
>As a result, the investigators found, "most anti-Israel activists seemed to 
>be careful not to express straight anti-Semitic remarks. Jargon from the 
>time of Nazi Germany however, was often used, as well as comparisons between 
>Israel's actions and those of Nazi Germany." Other threads in some 
>anti-Israel comments were various permutations of Holocaust denial, and lies 
>about Israeli history or Jewish culture, the report said.
>
>
>
>The report on anti-Semitism in Dutch online social media comes on the heels 
>of prosecutors in Utrecht deciding to charge an Arab group for publishing a 
>caricature on its website that insults the memory of the six million Jews 
>killed in the Holocaust. The caricature, according to the prosecutors, 
>insults Jews as a group and is therefore banned for publication in the 
>country.
>
>The case came to the attention of Dutch prosecutors after Ronny Naftaniel of 
>the Center for Documentation on Israel filed a complaint with police, saying 
>that the picture was discriminatory and racist. The Arab group says it 
>placed the cartoon on its website to show the "hypocrisy" of European 
>officials.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2045677 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:44:56 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:56:12 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >> targeting civilians.
>>
>> >You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> >I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> >onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> >But it's still garlic.
>> >White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon and so is
>> >napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> The nature of the bombs tell the story. The usual mix for an allied
>> attack on a German urban centre was 1:20:120, meaning one air-mine
>> weighing up to 22,000 lb descending on a parachute intended to clear
>> away the stone roof shingles; twenty steel-jacketed 1000 lb bombs
>> intended to break the water mains under the streets and also to
>> intimidate the fire-fighting crews to stay sheltered; 120 incendiaries
>> were the last part of the mix, intended to set the damaged structures
>> on fire. A German city, the allies found, was almost impossible to
>> "blow up", but with considerable effort it was possible to set it on
>> fire, excepting of course industrial areas and suburban areas.
>>
>> The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
>> the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
>> methods.
>
>Nope.  It was designed to destroy German war industry.

There was no "German war industry" in the areas being bombed. As a
matter of fact, more than 95% of German industry was intact on
08-May-1945, otherwise there wouldn't have been anything for the
dismantlers to work 24/7 to steal over the four years following.

Even Americans are not so stupid as to destroy goods they were
planning to steal later.

>
>
>
>> The Americans, for example, built replicas of downtown
>> apartment blocks and other neighbourhoods in Hamburg to see
>> experimentally what methods would set them on fire most effectively.
>> There has never been anything clean or noble about the allied war
>> effort.
>
>It was plenty noble for us to bring the German crime spree to an end.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2045678 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:58:23 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 12:28 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Hiroshima Facts"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:403c2395-de47-46e7-a414-48c80499e2f5@w36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
>> >> the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
>> >> methods.
>>
>> > Nope.  It was designed to destroy German war industry.
>>
>> Hiroshima Facts. don't get caught up in a "Straw Man" argument.
>>
>> Even if the bombing of Dresden and London were wrong they are not to be
>> compared with the deliberate lethal injection of children by the Nazis!
>
>You justify the bombing of innocents in Dresden?  How dare you you
>mook.  Why don't you travel back in time and live the Dresden
>lifestyle back in the '40's.  ???  Let's see you, who committed no
>crime against anyone like it.

Poor Mavis is so illogical. The difference between her lethal
injection scenario and the women and their newborns being burned to
death in the local hospital because of an allied bombing is a matter
of technique, not of intent or morality.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2045711 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:31:48 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 4:25 pm, George  wrote:
>> On Sep 5, 7:58 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > You justify the bombing of innocents in Dresden?  How dare you you
>> > mook.  
>>
>> mook?
>>
>>  Is our little nazi wannabe throwing the toys out of his cot.
>> After that little run of nazi denial and rabid hate posts whoever
>> medicates him should refer to Michael Jacksons doctor for his formulae
>
>You once again pig out like a pig when using the word 'nazi'.
>Definitions please!

A "Nazi" is anybody that poor simple-minded George doesn't like.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2045712 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 21:07:55 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 5, 3:31 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 4:25 pm, George  wrote:
>>
>
>> >  Is our little nazi wannabe throwing the toys out of his cot.
>> > After that little run of nazi denial and rabid hate posts whoever
>> > medicates him should refer to Michael Jacksons doctor for his formulae
>>
>> You once again pig out like a pig when using the word 'nazi'.
>> Definitions please!
>
>I have to explain your senseless creed to you ?
>Have you not the sense to be aware of your proclivities ?

Were you born stupid, George, or did you have to strive for this
effect?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:29 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:39:24 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 12:28 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Hiroshima Facts"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:403c2395-de47-46e7-a414-48c80499e2f5@w36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
>> >> the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
>> >> methods.
>>
>> > Nope.  It was designed to destroy German war industry.
>>
>> Hiroshima Facts. don't get caught up in a "Straw Man" argument.
>>
>> Even if the bombing of Dresden and London were wrong they are not to be
>> compared with the deliberate lethal injection of children by the Nazis!
>
>Well you're right for once.  The bombing of Dresden should not be
>compared to the injectin of children by the Nazs.  The bombing was far
>worse than anything the nazis could come up with.

The partisan propagandists like to omit the fact that the bombing of
London was a belated response to more than six months of British
terrorist bombing over Germany. The bombing of London was the effect
for which Churchill was striving, to give some relief to the British
airfields.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2045714 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 15:27:18 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 4:25 pm, George  wrote:
>> On Sep 5, 7:58 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > You justify the bombing of innocents in Dresden?  How dare you you
>> > mook.  
>>
>> mook?
>>
>>  Is our little nazi wannabe throwing the toys out of his cot.
>> After that little run of nazi denial and rabid hate posts whoever
>> medicates him should refer to Michael Jacksons doctor for his formulae
>
>Yeah mook.  You justify the murder of children and then call people
>who don't justify along with you 'nazi'.  That is why you're a mook.
>You were born a mook, you are a mook, and you will go to your grave
>knowing full well that you're a mook.

According to George, Nazis are people who are opposed to the murder of
small children, so perhaps Nazis are not that bad and it is George who
is evil.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2045715 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:31:12 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:51 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 10:44 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> > > On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:56:12 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > >On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > > >> On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > >> > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > > >> > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > >> > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > > >> > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > >> > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > >> > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > > >> That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > > >> What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> > > >> targeting civilians.
>>
>> > > >You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> > > >I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> > > >onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> > > >But it's still garlic.
>> > > >White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon and so is
>> > > >napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> > > The nature of the bombs tell the story. The usual mix for an allied
>> > > attack on a German urban centre was 1:20:120, meaning one air-mine
>> > > weighing up to 22,000 lb descending on a parachute intended to clear
>> > > away the stone roof shingles; twenty steel-jacketed 1000 lb bombs
>> > > intended to break the water mains under the streets and also to
>> > > intimidate the fire-fighting crews to stay sheltered; 120 incendiaries
>> > > were the last part of the mix, intended to set the damaged structures
>> > > on fire. A German city, the allies found, was almost impossible to
>> > > "blow up", but with considerable effort it was possible to set it on
>> > > fire, excepting of course industrial areas and suburban areas.
>>
>> > > The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
>> > > the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
>> > > methods.
>>
>> > Nope.  It was designed to destroy German war industry.
>>
>> > > The Americans, for example, built replicas of downtown
>> > > apartment blocks and other neighbourhoods in Hamburg to see
>> > > experimentally what methods would set them on fire most effectively.
>> > > There has never been anything clean or noble about the allied war
>> > > effort.
>>
>> > It was plenty noble for us to bring the German crime spree to an end.
>>
>> Too bad no one has of yet brung your crime spree to an end.
>
>That's because we are not on a crime spree.

A crime spree IS the USA, ever since July 4, 1776. That date is
undoubtedly the greatest tragedy in human history.

>
>
>
>> Hey, you
>> got the guns and the other guys got pale imitiations.  For now.
>> Although your guns din't help you too much in Vietnam, did they?
>> Might is right is what the Prez of the Uzzz sez.  Let's see whart
>> happens when Chiner gets bigger guns than you.
>
>China won't get bigger than us.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:30 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:32:55 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 5:31 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 3:51 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 4, 10:44 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:56:12 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> > > >  wrote:
>> > > > >On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > > > >> On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > >> > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > >> > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > > > >> > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > > >> > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > > > >> > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > > >> > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > > >> > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > > > >> That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > > > >> What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> > > > >> targeting civilians.
>>
>> > > > >You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> > > > >I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> > > > >onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> > > > >But it's still garlic.
>> > > > >White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon and so is
>> > > > >napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> > > > The nature of the bombs tell the story. The usual mix for an allied
>> > > > attack on a German urban centre was 1:20:120, meaning one air-mine
>> > > > weighing up to 22,000 lb descending on a parachute intended to clear
>> > > > away the stone roof shingles; twenty steel-jacketed 1000 lb bombs
>> > > > intended to break the water mains under the streets and also to
>> > > > intimidate the fire-fighting crews to stay sheltered; 120 incendiaries
>> > > > were the last part of the mix, intended to set the damaged structures
>> > > > on fire. A German city, the allies found, was almost impossible to
>> > > > "blow up", but with considerable effort it was possible to set it on
>> > > > fire, excepting of course industrial areas and suburban areas.
>>
>> > > > The allied bombing was carefully scientifically designed carnage with
>> > > > the same intent as they claim for Auschwitz but simply using remote
>> > > > methods.
>>
>> > > Nope.  It was designed to destroy German war industry.
>>
>> > > > The Americans, for example, built replicas of downtown
>> > > > apartment blocks and other neighbourhoods in Hamburg to see
>> > > > experimentally what methods would set them on fire most effectively.
>> > > > There has never been anything clean or noble about the allied war
>> > > > effort.
>>
>> > > It was plenty noble for us to bring the German crime spree to an end.
>>
>> > Too bad no one has of yet brung your crime spree to an end.
>>
>> That's because we are not on a crime spree.
>>
>> > Hey, you
>> > got the guns and the other guys got pale imitiations.  For now.
>> > Although your guns din't help you too much in Vietnam, did they?
>> > Might is right is what the Prez of the Uzzz sez.  Let's see whart
>> > happens when Chiner gets bigger guns than you.
>>
>> China won't get bigger than us.
>
>I hope not.  But you suk as usual.

Hiroshima schmuck is your typical ignorant American arsehole.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:30 EDT 2009
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Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:43:47 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 9:05 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:bfa0732e-3368-4c32-9f87-9510f5b2cdf5@c37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in
>> > messagenews:8e375373-1fe0-4edc-a9c3-4f7ed9144c99@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities
>> > > > > based on
>> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted
>> > > > > Children!
>>
>> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they
>> > > > knew
>> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > > That is incorrect. The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage. That is anything but
>> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like. But as
>> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> > onion is still an onion. Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> > But it's still garlic.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > This isn't a question of type token
>> > distinction.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
>> > Take "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" - how many words there ? Three?
>> > or
>> > Ten? If there are ten words there how is one "rose" different to the
>> > other?
>> > If all roses are the same how can you tell?
>>
>> > In addition:
>> > Onions are part of the lily family too!
>> > You are just saying that BOTH onions and garlic are still lilies even
>> > thought they are part of the sub group garlic and onion!
>> > So how come "blanket bombing" and murder can't BOTH be "killing people"
>> > and
>> > one be a sub group of "direct targeting" and the other "collateral damage"
>>
>> [quote]
>> Collateral damage refers to unavoidable civilian deaths when a
>> military target has been attacked.
>> Taking Dresden as an example, civilians were directly targeted.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> First I didnt introduce "collateral damage" and I didn't justify Dresden. I
>> think i referred to industrial england ie. the Midlands. But I certainly
>> made the point that even the unjustified bombing of civilian populations is
>> not direct targeting of children in the sence that giving lethal injections
>> to Jewish children was.
>>
>
>You're gone off again as usual.  Lethal injections, I didn't bring it
>up.  You did in a feeble attempt to make a point which you have failed
>at once again, miserably.
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Here is the US definition:http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/usaf/afpam14-210/part20.htm#page180
>>
>> Broadly defined, collateral damage is unintentional damage or incidental
>> damage affecting facilities, equipment or personnel occurring as a result of
>> military actions directed against targeted enemy forces or facilities.
>> [end excerpt]
>>
>> In the Dresden case there is evidence that civilians were targeted in that
>> by targeting the regions the plan was to cause the maximum disruption terror
>> and death to the civilian population there. I didn't justify the bombing of
>> Dresden which is another issue altogether.
>>
>> In the bombing of targets in cities there is less evidence. But if civilians
>> die in the targeting of a Military or industrial target one can not claim
>> the target is the actual civilians. They are incidental. But one CAN claim
>> that if lethal injections were given to Jewish children then the target WAS
>> the children and not the building they were in!
>
>You once again bring up Jewish children.  The allies targeted
>civilians which I have shown to include, pregnant women, old men,
>boys, homosexuals, disciples of bondage, and of course hitler youth.

The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
Anglo-American terrorist bombing.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2045719 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:00:09 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 9:39 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> >> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:8e375373-1fe0-4edc-a9c3-4f7ed9144c99@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities
>> >> > > > based on
>> >> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted
>> >> > > > Children!
>>
>> >> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> > That is incorrect. The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> > What you are referring to is collateral damage. That is anything but
>> >> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> [quote]
>> >> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> >> I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> >> onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> >> But it's still garlic.
>> >> [/quote]
>>
>> >> This isn't a question of type token distinction.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
>> >> Take "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" - how many words there ? Three? or
>> >> Ten? If there are ten words there how is one "rose" different to the other?
>> >> If all roses are the same how can you tell?
>>
>> >> In addition:
>> >> Onions are part of the lily family too!
>> >> You are just saying that BOTH onions and garlic are still lilies even
>> >> thought they are part of the sub group garlic and onion!
>>
>> >> So how come "blanket bombing" and murder can't BOTH be "killing people" and
>> >> one be a sub group of "direct targeting" and the other "collateral damage"
>>
>> >Collateral damage refers to unavoidable civilian deaths when a
>> >military target has been attacked.
>> >Taking Dresden as an example, civilians were directly targeted.
>>
>> You are absolutely correct. The refugees from Silesia and West Prussia
>> WERE the targets.
>
>Nope.  The target was the railyards (for US bombers) and war industry
>(for UK bombers).

LOL

The trains still ran on time until the last day of the war. You're
totally full of shit, like so many other ignorant Americans.

The UK bomber fleets carried more than 90% incendiaries, totally
useless against industrial installations, which were not in any case
the target. The intent was to set cities on fire, a feat that can only
be accomplished by attacking the densely built up inner cities, not
widely spaced and heavily build factories.

Ludwigshaven in south-western Germany was typical. On 08-May-1945 the
residential areas of the city were basically flat, but BASF was still
working with most of its 1500 buildings intact.

Your rants are just tissues of lies.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2045720 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:57:21 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 8:09 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:8e375373-1fe0-4edc-a9c3-4f7ed9144c99@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities
>> > > > > based on
>> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted
>> > > > > Children!
>>
>> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > > That is incorrect. The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage. That is anything but
>> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> > [quote]
>> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> > onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> > But it's still garlic.
>> > [/quote]
>>
>> > This isn't a question of type token distinction.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
>> > Take "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" - how many words there ? Three? or
>> > Ten? If there are ten words there how is one "rose" different to the other?
>> > If all roses are the same how can you tell?
>>
>> > In addition:
>> > Onions are part of the lily family too!
>> > You are just saying that BOTH onions and garlic are still lilies even
>> > thought they are part of the sub group garlic and onion!
>> > So how come "blanket bombing" and murder can't BOTH be "killing people" and
>> > one be a sub group of "direct targeting" and the other "collateral damage"
>>
>> Collateral damage refers to unavoidable civilian deaths when a
>> military target has been attacked.
>> Taking Dresden as an example, civilians were directly targeted.
>
>No, the US target at Dresden was the railyards.

The Americans must be the most incompetent warriors in the history of
humanity, since trains were rolling through Dresden on schedule within
a few hours of the attack. American incompetence and ineptitude is
causing NATO to lose in Afghanistan. The only British and French
casualties during the first Gulf War were caused by American
incompetence and ineptitude. American "help" generally produces more
casualties than enemy action.

>
>I'm not too familiar with UK targeting, but they seemed to be focussed
>on the war industry at Dresden.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:31 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:54:55 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> Actually (though I believe it was used as a weapon) WP ISN'T since the
>> Falluja case since it would be illegal and the US would have to have charged
>> the people who used it. S it is it is not listed as a Weapon in the part of
>> the Weapons Treaty that the Us signed but it is listed in the Protocol which
>> they didn't sign, Napalm is listed in the part they signed.
>
>The treaty and protocol in question does not outlaw either WP or
>napalm.
>
>The protocol does place some restrictions on incendiaries like napalm,
>but not on smoke devices like WP.
>
>While the US is not a party to the protocol, our use of napalm in Iraq
>complied fully with the protocol's restrictions.

The USA has been the world's major problem since its creation in 1776,
so the total destruction of the USA and its bankrupt system would be
of immense benefit to humanity. "Hiroshima Facts" is your typical ugly
and ignorant American.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2045722 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:20:53 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 10:54 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Actually (though I believe it was used as a weapon) WP ISN'T since the
>> > Falluja case since it would be illegal and the US would have to have charged
>> > the people who used it. S it is it is not listed as a Weapon in the part of
>> > the Weapons Treaty that the Us signed but it is listed in the Protocol which
>> > they didn't sign, Napalm is listed in the part they signed.
>>
>> The treaty and protocol in question does not outlaw either WP or
>> napalm.
>>
>> The protocol does place some restrictions on incendiaries like napalm,
>> but not on smoke devices like WP.
>>
>> While the US is not a party to the protocol, our use of napalm in Iraq
>> complied fully with the protocol's restrictions.
>
>You asshole.  WP is a smoke device?  Tell that to people what was
>melted jerkoffski.  Napalm, the dropping of did not even win Vietnam
>for you dorks.  It sure as hell didn't win Iraq either even though it
>caused horrible wounds and deaths.

Ugly ignorant Americans such as "Hiroshima Facts" are only concerned
if the victims are white wealthy Americans. It is not by accident,
that American armies past and present could charitably be described as
"armies of the slums" since that is where most of the personnel were
dredged up.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2045723 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>
>Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>that are not targeted.
>
So, "Hiroshima Facts", the people who arranged 9/11 would have been
perfectly justified, according to your logic, if they had named a
single person as the target of the attack, then the other 2,999
victims could have been dismissed as "collateral damage". The Israelis
use that same sort of sophistry in their justifications for outrages
in the West Bank and Gaza.

>The Allies targeted things like war industry and enemy soldiers.  It
>was the Axis that targeted civilians.
>
>
>
>> But as
>> I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> But it's still garlic.
>> White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon
>
>Actually WP is a smoke device for obscuring movement on the
>battlefield.
>
>
>
>> and so is
>> napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>
>Napalm is a perfectly legal weapon.
>
>The target at Tokyo was all the war industry in the city.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2045724 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:29:27 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:43 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>>
>> You once again bring up Jewish children.  The allies targeted
>> civilians which I have shown to include, pregnant women, old men,
>> boys, homosexuals, disciples of bondage, and of course hitler youth.
>
>Nope.  Only the Axis targeted civilians.

LOL

You're either totally naive or full of shit to your eyeballs. Only a
deluded gullible American can be this stupid.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:33 EDT 2009
Article: 2045725 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:42:46 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:10:11 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> Of course they did. The target for the allies was people, and other
>> things were the collateral damage.
>
>Nope.  The allies targeted enemy soldiers and war industry.  It is the
>axis who targeted civilians.

How does your model explain the fact casualities in Coventry were
fewer than 400, whereas in Hamburg it was 60,000 even though people in
that latter city had much better protection? Four hundred people I can
believe as "collateral damage" where they were just in the wrong place
at the wrong time during an attack on something else. That argument
doesn't wash in Hamburg or most other places the allies like to claim
it.

Civilian casualties in Germany dramatically exceeded the losses of the
armed services, so your argument there is also false.

>
>
>
>> >What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >targeting civilians.
>>
>> All the attacks on major German cities were against the medieval cores
>> of those cities where houses are close together making them easier to
>> set on fire. There are no factories, military installations, etc. in
>> the medieval core, where houses of 500 years to 1000 years are the
>> norm.
>
>Actually, there were often large railyards located there.  That is
>what the US was often targeting.
>
>And there was plenty of war industry there as well.  That is what the
>UK was often targeting.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2045726 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 10:39 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> that are not targeted.
>>
>> The Allies targeted things like war industry and enemy soldiers.  It
>> was the Axis that targeted civilians.
>>
>> > But as
>> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> > onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> > But it's still garlic.
>> > White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon
>>
>> Actually WP is a smoke device for obscuring movement on the
>> battlefield.
>>
>> > and so is
>> > napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> Napalm is a perfectly legal weapon.
>>
>> The target at Tokyo was all the war industry in the city.
>
>Bull roar you moronic flying pig.  You gotta take a risk in war if you
>wanna blow shit up honourably.  If you wanna axe like aminals and be a
>Yankee then go for it like a coward.

The attack on Tokyo, and most other Japanese cities, was pure
terrorism carried out with a load of more than 99% incendiaries, bombs
that would do little or no damage to heavy factory buildings, but
would cause the wooden houses of the Japanese lower classes go up in
flames.

Were you to do a Tokyo-style attack against Queens, the borough of New
York, most of it would burn down leaving its multi-million population
homeless, but the industrial areas would remain standing and
functional since those structures are not that vulnerable to
incendiaries.

All that "Hiroshima Facts" has to say about anything can be pretty
much summed up as nonsense.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2045727 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:19:47 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 5, 1:39 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> A Zionist apologist criticizing an alleged Nazi apologist is more than
>> a little hypocritical. Why are the same actions excusable for Zionists
>> but wicked for Nazis?
>
>Funny how you bought the term 'alleged' in.
>You have a history of anti Jewish Holocaust denial posts.

Show me an anti-Jewish post that I allegedly wrote. You will not find
any. I dispute some of your nonsense stories, but I have no animus
against Jews.

>Or for the purposes of the exercise are you now going to say that you
>don't ?
>
>And while you''re at it find any post of mine where I am a 'Zionist
>apologist' without good cause..

For you, Zionists are incapable of doing any wrong. That amounts to
pretty blind partisanship.

>
>
>Oh and do try not to lie or invent 'facts' like nazis are prone to
>doing!


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2045728 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:51:33 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>> >> in Japan.
>>
>> >The A-bombs struck military targets
>>
>> That is utter crap and even you cannot be so stupid as to not realize
>> that a nuclear bomb is an attack on an entire city, by definition a
>> war crime, and not an attack on a "military target".
>
>Nope.  Hiroshima was a major military center filled with tens of
>thousands of Japanese troops.

You could say the same thing about virtually any city in the totally
militaristic USA, but the presence of a few soldiers does not justify
somebody taking out New York City.

>
>Nagasaki was an industrial center devoted to manufacturing weapons.
>
>
>
>> Your simple-minded reasoning would be the same as justifying the mass
>> murder of the five million residents of Manhattan in order to take out
>> a small factory that makes swimming goggles that could conceivably be
>> used by military divers somewhere.
>
>The huge numbers of soldiers in Hiroshima, and the huge weapons
>industry of Nagasaki, are hardly comparable to a swimming goggle
>factory.

That is all irrelevant. Had the murderous Americans attacked the
actual industrial areas or miltary areas, there would be little
complaint, but they didn't. They chose to attack the entire city with
an indiscriminate holocaust device, with the full expectation that the
"collateral damage" would dramatically exceed the target damage. Even
the day was chosen to be a warm one, where the maximum number of
people would be outdoors and hence unprotected. Americans are simply
scum, and I hope that their murderous formula gets tried out on them
some year.

>
>
>
>> Your arguments are preposterous and amount to hate speech.
>
>Nope.  My arguments are factual and amount to a straightforward
>recitation of the historical record.

Your posts are straighforward recitations of American propaganda, but
hardly of the historical record.

>
>
>
>> > and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>> > to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>>
>> This is more horseshit
>
>Nope.  Japan sent no surrender offers until after both A-bombs were
>dropped.

That is historically false.

>
>
>
>> that has been conclusively disproven by
>> numerous authors.
>
>Nope.  No one has disproved the fact that Japan sent no surrender
>offers until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>
>(It would be pretty hard to disprove, given the reality that Japan
>didn't send any such offer, at least not until both A-bombs were
>dropped.)

Again, you're talking through your hat, but that is hardly news.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2045729 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:35:49 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 5:33 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 3:56 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > That's because Japan was willing to fight a war using troops.  You
>> > coward shite burned civilians by the hundres of thousands.
>>
>> You've gotta be a real retard to suggest that US soldiers in the
>> Pacific were cowardly.
>>
>> You'd wet yourself if you had to face the fighting our guys faced on
>> Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
>
>The only way youse won the war was to nuke civilians.  that's real
>brave man it really is.  How many US civilians did the Japs burn?  And
>yeah, I'd probably piss myself if I had to fight the Japs close up as
>would you.  NO?  Oh yeah right you're crazy brave and phoney tough.

Murdering civilians and other unarmed people is the American
specialty, with Afghanistan and Iraq just being the most recent
examples of this murderous sewer of a country in action.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:35 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:33:53 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:56 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>>
>> That's because Japan was willing to fight a war using troops.  You
>> coward shite burned civilians by the hundres of thousands.
>
>You've gotta be a real retard to suggest that US soldiers in the
>Pacific were cowardly.

American soldiers were cowards and louts wherever they have gone.
Massacres of local civilians has always been an accompanying
phenomenon with American occupations. Americans are scum.

>
>You'd wet yourself if you had to face the fighting our guys faced on
>Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

So did the Americans, which is why they resorted to doing what they do
best, namely murdering defenseless civilians.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2045731 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:35:53 +0200, ZuLu  wrote:

>Hiroshima Facts escribió:
>> On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>>> in Japan.
>> 
>> The A-bombs struck military targets and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>> to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>
>And they will be always people to believe it.

All Americans are ever taught is official American propaganda, and
they are gullible enough to believe it all.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2045732 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knolls seventh lie for Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:13:54 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>I really must get that list of your buffoonish posts that point out
>your ignorance and blind racism.

LOL, George, you are the last person on the planet who should be
whining about "ignorance and blind racism", since you exhibit both
characteristics to a very high degree.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2045733 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier Irving 'expert' on WWII
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:20:46 +1200, "Petito"  wrote:

>Heinrich wrote:
>:: First the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet cited freedom of the press
>:: as its justification for accusing IDF soldiers of harvesting
>:: Palestinian organs. Now the Spanish daily El Mundo is using the same
>:: argument to defend including Holocaust denier David Irving among its
>:: list of experts to be interviewed this week to mark 70 years since
>:: the start of World War II.
>::
>::
>::
>:: An interview with Irving, who served time in an Austrian prison for
>:: his Holocaust denial, is scheduled to appear in the paper on
>:: Saturday, a day after an interview with Yad Vashem's chairman Avner
>:: Shalev.
>
>
>Holocaust Deniers Rankled by Their Standard Bearer¹s Revisions
>
>Marissa Brostoff | Wed. Oct 03, 2007
>
>A famed Holocaust denier is revising his revisionist thinking  and the
>move is opening up a rift among his fellow travelers.
>
>
>David Irving, who was released from prison last December in Austria
>after being convicted of Holocaust denial, recently announced that he is
>rethinking his position on the fate of European Jews during World War
>II. Irving now concedes that a mass slaughter of Jews may have occurred.

Nobody denies that large numbers of Jews died. The disputes focus on
some of the really preposterous stories in current circulation about
the period.

>
>In a series of interviews, including one with the Forward, Irving
>outlined his new beliefs. After his release, he said, he discovered in a
>volume of trivial Nazi communiqués a memo from SS major Hermann Höfle
>that refers to ³S,² ³B² and ³T² < code, Irving claims, for the
>concentration camps Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka. He said he is 80%
>sure that the document is genuine and that no other piece of Holocaust
>evidence has seemed as legitimate.
>
>³This is the only one,² Irving said. ³If [the document] is genuine, it
>refutes the view of the revisionists that nothing happened.²
>
>Irving¹s current conclusions still lie far from those of mainstream
>Holocaust scholars. He believes that around 2.4 million Jews were killed
>by the Nazis, that Auschwitz was not a death camp and that SS chief
>Heinrich Himmler ordered the murders behind Hitler¹s back.
>
>Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor whom Irving
>unsuccessfully sued for libel in 1996 after she described him in print
>as a Holocaust denier, was unimpressed by Irving¹s new stance.
>
>³Do I care whether he said 2.4 million or zero?² Lipstadt said. ³Bottom
>line is, he¹s an unrepentant, committed antisemite.²
>
>Lipstadt questioned the wisdom of devoting airtime to Irving, who by
>many accounts craves the limelight.
>
>³He should be met with a big yawn,² she said.
>
>Indeed, the conclusion will likely have no effect at all on mainstream
>Holocaust scholarship, a field in which Irving has long been
>discredited. It has, however, illuminated a rift between those
>revisionists who refuse to entertain the possibility that the Holocaust
>occurred and those who say they are skeptical.
>
>Irving confirmed that he has made many new enemies in the revisionist
>community and kept old ones.
>
>³I¹ve received a number of e-mails from around the world,² Irving said.
>³They¹re not very happy with me at all.²
>
>Among the unsympathetic is Michael Santomauro, who runs the revisionist
>Web site Reporters Notebook. ³[Irving] is a flip-flopper on the
>Holocaust,² Santomauro said. ³I think he¹s positioning himself to sell
>more books.²
>
>Irving, 69, began writing about World War II in his youth, often
>expressing sympathy for the Third Reich. His books were dismissed by
>critics and historians but sold well. In 1988, the American execution
>specialist Fred Leuchter¹s claim that there was no evidence of gas
>chambers at Auschwitz convinced him that the Holocaust had never
>occurred.
>
>Eight years later, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel after she described
>him as a Holocaust denier in her book ³Denying the Holocaust: The
>Growing Assault on Truth and Memory.² Irving lost the case.
>
>In 2005, Irving was arrested in Austria for having publicly denied the
>Holocaust in that country in 1989. He was convicted and sentenced to
>three years in prison, but the decision was overturned on appeal late in
>2006, after he had served about a year.
>
>One of Irving¹s main allies in the United States is Mark Weber, director
>of the revisionist Institute for Historical Review. Weber countered the
>claim that Irving is simply engaged in a publicity stunt.
>
>³Those people who are disappointed that Irving has switched [sides]
>shouldn¹t be, because he¹s always been ambivalent,² Weber said, adding
>that Irving¹s current stance marks a return to the way he was thinking
>when he published ³Hitler¹s War² in 1976.
>
>Irving agrees with this interpretation of his trajectory.
>
>³You must not think that I¹ve done anything to rehabilitate myself,² he
>said.
>
>Comments Irving made to the Guardian newspaper suggest the extent to
>which he does not wish to be rehabilitated. Irving called the Jews
>³architects of their own misfortune,² responsible for most of the 20th
>century¹s wars.
>
>Likewise, he continues to defend those revisionists with whom he now
>disagrees.
>
>³They¹re doing very important work,² he said, adding that revisionists
>keep mainstream Holocaust scholars on their toes. He dismissed the
>charge that revisionists are motivated by factors other than the pursuit
>of historical truth, such as antisemitism.
>
>And he is confident that his turnaround will not win him any fans in the
>academic world.
>
>³I think that¹s a dead duck.² he said.
>Wed. Oct 03, 2007
>
> http://www.forward.com/articles/11755/
>
>
>
>
>
>::
>:: When Israeli Ambassador to Spain Raphael Schutz learned of the
>:: plans, he wrote a letter to the newspaper, saying it was obscene to
>:: include Irving in the list of experts and give him an esteemed
>:: platform. Such exposure, Schutz argued, lent Irving credibility.
>::
>:: Schutz's letter appeared in the paper on Wednesday.
>::
>::
>:: Schutz wrote that one of the problems facing the post-modern age was
>:: an inability to recognize anything as true, saying instead that
>:: there were only "different narratives."
>::
>:: As such, Schutz wrote, there was no capacity to differentiate
>:: between truth and lies, between the important and the superfluous.
>:: And in this world void of truth, everything is at the same level -
>:: the murdered and the victim, the wise and the ignorant, Mozart's
>:: opera and the latest pop song.
>::
>::
>::
>:: Even freedom of the press, Schutz wrote, had limits. One sentence
>:: that was edited out of his letter was his charge that the paper was
>:: printing the interview to cause a sensation.
>::
>:: The paper's response, which was run under the letter, was not to
>:: endorse Irving's ideas, but rather to cite press freedom and the
>:: right for everyone to decide on their own.
>::
>:: Yad Vashem spokesman Estee Yaari, speaking for Shalev, said that it
>:: was "shocking" that a paper like El Mundo would include an interview
>:: with Irving as an "expert."
>::
>:: Shalev, she said, "would never have agreed to be interviewed had he
>:: known."
>::
>:: Aftonbladet, meanwhile, received backing for its article on IDF organ
>:: harvesting from Syrian President Bashar Assad's spokeswoman Bouthaina
>:: Shaaban, who praised the article in the Pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat on
>:: Tuesday, and said Israel "should be put on trial" for the these
>:: "criminal acts."
>::
>:: "These criminal acts began in 1992 when Palestinians started to
>:: witness a sharp rise in the number of young Palestinians
>:: disappearing and of bodies of Palestinians killed by occupation
>:: forces being returned with organs like hearts, kidneys, livers and
>:: eyes missing," she wrote, in a story that appeared on the paper's
>:: English Web site.
>::
>:: She also wrote that "investigations in New Jersey have proved that
>:: Rabbi Levy-Izhak (Isaac Rosenbaum) from Brooklyn and other rabbis
>:: have run for years Soprano-like networks to sell the kidneys of
>:: Palestinian martyrs in the US black market. Patients in the United
>:: States paid up to US$ 160,000 per kidney.
>::
>:: "In 2003, a medical conference showed that Israel is the only
>:: country in the world in which the medical profession does not
>:: condemn stealing human organs and does not act against those
>:: involved in such a crime."
>::
>:: Yossi Levy, the Foreign Ministry's spokesman for the Israeli press,
>:: said Shaaban's praise for the article should be a "warning light"
>:: for the Swedish government which "unfortunately has still not fully
>:: and courageously condemned the article."
>::
>:: "It is not surprising that Damascus smelled the anti-Semitism
>:: emanating from the article, and quickly embraced it for its
>:: propaganda purposes," he said, adding that "poisonous anti-Semitism
>:: was no stranger to Syria's political philosophy."
>::
>:: Levy cited as just one example remarks Assad made to welcome Pope
>:: John Paul II to Damascus in 2001. At that time Assad said Israel and
>:: the Jews "tried to kill the principles of all religions with the
>:: same mentality in which they betrayed Jesus Christ and the same way
>:: they tried to betray and kill the Prophet Mohammed."
>
>--?
>PB1952@gmail.com 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:37 EDT 2009
Article: 2045734 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier Irving 'expert' on WWII
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 23:55:49 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Petito"  wrote in message 
>news:h7s7c2$13t$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Heinrich wrote:
>> :: First the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet cited freedom of the press
>> :: as its justification for accusing IDF soldiers of harvesting
>> :: Palestinian organs. Now the Spanish daily El Mundo is using the same
>> :: argument to defend including Holocaust denier David Irving among its
>> :: list of experts to be interviewed this week to mark 70 years since
>> :: the start of World War II.
>> ::
>> ::
>> ::
>> :: An interview with Irving, who served time in an Austrian prison for
>> :: his Holocaust denial, is scheduled to appear in the paper on
>> :: Saturday, a day after an interview with Yad Vashem's chairman Avner
>> :: Shalev.
>>
>>
>> Holocaust Deniers Rankled by Their Standard Bearer¹s Revisions
>>
>> Marissa Brostoff | Wed. Oct 03, 2007
>>
>> A famed Holocaust denier is revising his revisionist thinking  and the
>> move is opening up a rift among his fellow travelers.
>>
>>
>> David Irving, who was released from prison last December in Austria
>> after being convicted of Holocaust denial, recently announced that he is
>> rethinking his position on the fate of European Jews during World War
>
>> II. Irving now concedes that a mass slaughter of Jews may have occurred.
>
>What choice does he have. Anything else he would say is holocaust denial.

Numerous astronomers in years past, threatened by the Church of Rome,
also recanted their claims that the earth was spherical and that it
was in orbit about the sun, but that hardly makes these observations
false. It only testifies to the power of the Roman Church at the time,
just as it testifies to the power of the holocaust lobby now.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>>
>> In a series of interviews, including one with the Forward, Irving
>> outlined his new beliefs. After his release, he said, he discovered in a
>> volume of trivial Nazi communiqués a memo from SS major Hermann Höfle
>> that refers to ³S,² ³B² and ³T² < code, Irving claims, for the
>> concentration camps Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka. He said he is 80%
>> sure that the document is genuine and that no other piece of Holocaust
>> evidence has seemed as legitimate.
>>
>> ³This is the only one,² Irving said. ³If [the document] is genuine, it
>> refutes the view of the revisionists that nothing happened.²
>>
>> Irving¹s current conclusions still lie far from those of mainstream
>> Holocaust scholars. He believes that around 2.4 million Jews were killed
>> by the Nazis, that Auschwitz was not a death camp and that SS chief
>> Heinrich Himmler ordered the murders behind Hitler¹s back.
>>
>> Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor whom Irving
>> unsuccessfully sued for libel in 1996 after she described him in print
>> as a Holocaust denier, was unimpressed by Irving¹s new stance.
>>
>> ³Do I care whether he said 2.4 million or zero?² Lipstadt said. ³Bottom
>> line is, he¹s an unrepentant, committed antisemite.²
>>
>> Lipstadt questioned the wisdom of devoting airtime to Irving, who by
>> many accounts craves the limelight.
>>
>> ³He should be met with a big yawn,² she said.
>>
>> Indeed, the conclusion will likely have no effect at all on mainstream
>> Holocaust scholarship, a field in which Irving has long been
>> discredited. It has, however, illuminated a rift between those
>> revisionists who refuse to entertain the possibility that the Holocaust
>> occurred and those who say they are skeptical.
>>
>> Irving confirmed that he has made many new enemies in the revisionist
>> community and kept old ones.
>>
>> ³I¹ve received a number of e-mails from around the world,² Irving said.
>> ³They¹re not very happy with me at all.²
>>
>> Among the unsympathetic is Michael Santomauro, who runs the revisionist
>> Web site Reporters Notebook. ³[Irving] is a flip-flopper on the
>> Holocaust,² Santomauro said. ³I think he¹s positioning himself to sell
>> more books.²
>>
>> Irving, 69, began writing about World War II in his youth, often
>> expressing sympathy for the Third Reich. His books were dismissed by
>> critics and historians but sold well. In 1988, the American execution
>> specialist Fred Leuchter¹s claim that there was no evidence of gas
>> chambers at Auschwitz convinced him that the Holocaust had never
>> occurred.
>>
>> Eight years later, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel after she described
>> him as a Holocaust denier in her book ³Denying the Holocaust: The
>> Growing Assault on Truth and Memory.² Irving lost the case.
>>
>> In 2005, Irving was arrested in Austria for having publicly denied the
>> Holocaust in that country in 1989. He was convicted and sentenced to
>> three years in prison, but the decision was overturned on appeal late in
>> 2006, after he had served about a year.
>>
>> One of Irving¹s main allies in the United States is Mark Weber, director
>> of the revisionist Institute for Historical Review. Weber countered the
>> claim that Irving is simply engaged in a publicity stunt.
>>
>> ³Those people who are disappointed that Irving has switched [sides]
>> shouldn¹t be, because he¹s always been ambivalent,² Weber said, adding
>> that Irving¹s current stance marks a return to the way he was thinking
>> when he published ³Hitler¹s War² in 1976.
>>
>> Irving agrees with this interpretation of his trajectory.
>>
>> ³You must not think that I¹ve done anything to rehabilitate myself,² he
>> said.
>>
>> Comments Irving made to the Guardian newspaper suggest the extent to
>> which he does not wish to be rehabilitated. Irving called the Jews
>> ³architects of their own misfortune,² responsible for most of the 20th
>> century¹s wars.
>>
>> Likewise, he continues to defend those revisionists with whom he now
>> disagrees.
>>
>> ³They¹re doing very important work,² he said, adding that revisionists
>> keep mainstream Holocaust scholars on their toes. He dismissed the
>> charge that revisionists are motivated by factors other than the pursuit
>> of historical truth, such as antisemitism.
>>
>> And he is confident that his turnaround will not win him any fans in the
>> academic world.
>>
>> ³I think that¹s a dead duck.² he said.
>> Wed. Oct 03, 2007
>>
>> http://www.forward.com/articles/11755/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ::
>> :: When Israeli Ambassador to Spain Raphael Schutz learned of the
>> :: plans, he wrote a letter to the newspaper, saying it was obscene to
>> :: include Irving in the list of experts and give him an esteemed
>> :: platform. Such exposure, Schutz argued, lent Irving credibility.
>> ::
>> :: Schutz's letter appeared in the paper on Wednesday.
>> ::
>> ::
>> :: Schutz wrote that one of the problems facing the post-modern age was
>> :: an inability to recognize anything as true, saying instead that
>> :: there were only "different narratives."
>> ::
>> :: As such, Schutz wrote, there was no capacity to differentiate
>> :: between truth and lies, between the important and the superfluous.
>> :: And in this world void of truth, everything is at the same level -
>> :: the murdered and the victim, the wise and the ignorant, Mozart's
>> :: opera and the latest pop song.
>> ::
>> ::
>> ::
>> :: Even freedom of the press, Schutz wrote, had limits. One sentence
>> :: that was edited out of his letter was his charge that the paper was
>> :: printing the interview to cause a sensation.
>> ::
>> :: The paper's response, which was run under the letter, was not to
>> :: endorse Irving's ideas, but rather to cite press freedom and the
>> :: right for everyone to decide on their own.
>> ::
>> :: Yad Vashem spokesman Estee Yaari, speaking for Shalev, said that it
>> :: was "shocking" that a paper like El Mundo would include an interview
>> :: with Irving as an "expert."
>> ::
>> :: Shalev, she said, "would never have agreed to be interviewed had he
>> :: known."
>> ::
>> :: Aftonbladet, meanwhile, received backing for its article on IDF organ
>> :: harvesting from Syrian President Bashar Assad's spokeswoman Bouthaina
>> :: Shaaban, who praised the article in the Pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat on
>> :: Tuesday, and said Israel "should be put on trial" for the these
>> :: "criminal acts."
>> ::
>> :: "These criminal acts began in 1992 when Palestinians started to
>> :: witness a sharp rise in the number of young Palestinians
>> :: disappearing and of bodies of Palestinians killed by occupation
>> :: forces being returned with organs like hearts, kidneys, livers and
>> :: eyes missing," she wrote, in a story that appeared on the paper's
>> :: English Web site.
>> ::
>> :: She also wrote that "investigations in New Jersey have proved that
>> :: Rabbi Levy-Izhak (Isaac Rosenbaum) from Brooklyn and other rabbis
>> :: have run for years Soprano-like networks to sell the kidneys of
>> :: Palestinian martyrs in the US black market. Patients in the United
>> :: States paid up to US$ 160,000 per kidney.
>> ::
>> :: "In 2003, a medical conference showed that Israel is the only
>> :: country in the world in which the medical profession does not
>> :: condemn stealing human organs and does not act against those
>> :: involved in such a crime."
>> ::
>> :: Yossi Levy, the Foreign Ministry's spokesman for the Israeli press,
>> :: said Shaaban's praise for the article should be a "warning light"
>> :: for the Swedish government which "unfortunately has still not fully
>> :: and courageously condemned the article."
>> ::
>> :: "It is not surprising that Damascus smelled the anti-Semitism
>> :: emanating from the article, and quickly embraced it for its
>> :: propaganda purposes," he said, adding that "poisonous anti-Semitism
>> :: was no stranger to Syria's political philosophy."
>> ::
>> :: Levy cited as just one example remarks Assad made to welcome Pope
>> :: John Paul II to Damascus in 2001. At that time Assad said Israel and
>> :: the Jews "tried to kill the principles of all religions with the
>> :: same mentality in which they betrayed Jesus Christ and the same way
>> :: they tried to betray and kill the Prophet Mohammed."
>>
>> --?
>> PB1952@gmail.com 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2045735 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: dumbass barry and his theory of collateral damage goes down the  drain
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:26:47 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 9:07 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> Lest we forget...http://www.whale.to/b/walsh1.html
>> some excerpts:
>>
>> { it is a little known fact that allied air attacks on France alone
>> resulted in far more deaths and injuries than from German attacks}
>>
>> {Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan’s only two Christian cities come first
>> to mind when one considers total incineration from the air
>
>When did Hiroshima become a Christian city?

It became the centre of Christianity in Japan about 300 years ago.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2045736 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and Dresden.
>
>US bombers at Dresden were trying to hit the railyards.

That is utter nonsense. The Anglo-American bombing fleet was trying
out the fire-raising techniques they had learned in other German
cities and trying it out on a virgin target, since Dresden had never
been bombed previously. The attack was against the medieval city core,
not against the railway yards. In any case, the trains were running
unimpeded through the railway yards less than three hours after the
attack. You leave the impression that American service people would
have trouble hitting a barn with their pistol from the inside if it
was the railway yard that they were after. The railway yards are in
the suburbs, not in the medieval core.

>
>I am not familiar with the targeting details of Pforzheim.

LOL

There seem to be a lot of things with which you are totally
unfamiliar.

>
>
>
>> The indent of your allies was to bomb civilians to make the German soldiers
>> give up arms.
>
>US bombers were aiming for legitimate targets -- like the Dresden
>railyards.
>
>
>
>> At one time there was a German soldier sitting with us in the
>> basement. He said at least you can see what is ahead of you when you are in
>> the frontline, here you never know what is hitting you. As for Warsaw you
>> people complain the Germans bombed civilians. Well let me tell you when
>> German plains were shoot at from within civilian areas it becomes a military
>> target.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
>The Warsaw thing might have been legitimate combat (I'm not familiar
>with the incident in question), but the Holocaust was not a case of
>German planes returning fire.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:39 EDT 2009
Article: 2045737 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:25:16 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of 
>the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The 
>commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it 
>was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While 
>visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days 
>because the rail was bombed out.

Most of that sort of thing happened in the last couple of months of
the war after the Anglo-American air fleets gained control of the
skies over Germany. Their orgy of mass murder also peaked during the
same period.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Hiroshima Facts"  wrote in message 
>news:712482d4-b9a2-42f0-aee3-1c73d96e321a@h13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>> What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and 
>>> Dresden.
>>
>> US bombers at Dresden were trying to hit the railyards.
>>
>> I am not familiar with the targeting details of Pforzheim.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The indent of your allies was to bomb civilians to make the German 
>>> soldiers
>>> give up arms.
>>
>> US bombers were aiming for legitimate targets -- like the Dresden
>> railyards.
>>
>>
>>
>>> At one time there was a German soldier sitting with us in the
>>> basement. He said at least you can see what is ahead of you when you are 
>>> in
>>> the frontline, here you never know what is hitting you. As for Warsaw you
>>> people complain the Germans bombed civilians. Well let me tell you when
>>> German plains were shoot at from within civilian areas it becomes a 
>>> military
>>> target.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> The Warsaw thing might have been legitimate combat (I'm not familiar
>> with the incident in question), but the Holocaust was not a case of
>> German planes returning fire. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:39 EDT 2009
Article: 2045738 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:25:10 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>
>Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.

No matter how many times you repeat this bullshit, it remains
bullshit.

>
>And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2045739 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:42:44 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>> 9. In addition to its geographical position and topography and
>> its primary importance as a communications center, Dresden was,
>> in February 1945, known to contain at least 110 factories and
>> industrial enterprises that were legitimate military targets, and
>> were reported to have employed 50,000 workers in arms plants
>> alone.8 Among these were dispersed aircraft components factories;
>> a poison gas factory (Chemische Fabric Goye and Company); an
>> anti-aircraft and field gun factory (Lehman); the great Zeiss
>> Ikon A.G., Germany’s most important optical goods
>> manufactory; and, among others, factories engaged in the
>> production of electrical and X-ray apparatus (Koch and Sterzel
>> A.G.), gears and differentials (Saxoniswerke), and electric
>> gauges (Gebruder Bassler).9

This is ridiculous. By February of 1945, the war had raged for more
than 1500 days, and Dresden had not been attacked even ONCE, so how
significant a target could it have been, despite all the
self-justifying hype above?

>>
>> 10. Specific military installations in Dresden in February 1945
>> included barracks and hutted camps and at least one munitions
>> storage depot.10

None of those facilities were damaged, because they were not in the
medieval core of the city.

>>
>> 11. Dresden was protected by antiaircraft defenses , antiaircraft
>> guns and searchlights, in anticipation of Allied air raids
>> against the city.

All that stuff had been removed months before, since there had been no
attacks in over five years.

>11 The Dresden air defenses were under the
>> Combined Dresden (Corps Area IV) and Berlin (Corps Area III)
>> Luftwaffe Administration Commands.12

There is no reported anti-aircraft or fighter opposition to the allied
terrorist attack. This is more self-justifying American crap.

>>
>> http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/dresden.htm
>>
>> 
>>
>> 165 Statements Illustrating Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll's
>> strict adherence to the highest intellectual standards of Holocaust
>> denial... folks, with intellects like Knoll's to guide them, Holocaust
>> deniers cannot but achieve monumental failures and continuing
>> humiliations:
>>
>> (Seehttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/for
>> the first 158 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
>>
>> 159. "What court a courts who dances to the hollow fiddle.
>>      Every normal person knows how arrogant a law society
>>      can be the can screw anyone with impunity.."
>>      , Aug. 14, 2009
>>
>> 160. "Take James basque as an example it took him and others
>>      years to get access to all the records but only did have
>>      access to a few of them."
>>      , August 18, 2009
>>
>> 161. "Presac in german is a blood sausage store this one
>>      in your meadhead." ,
>>      Aug. 22, 2009
>>
>> 162. "He is more than boring he is a bon imbecile."
>>      , Aug. 25, 2009
>>
>> 163. "What will the American come up with next. Certainly
>>      there is no other nation on this planet who is involved
>>      in all the warts since 1945."
>>      , August 30, 2009
>>
>> 164. "Sure do whit engough money i will ingreas the figur to
>>      get more money from you suckers."
>>      , August 31, 2009
>>
>> 165. "What Nazi crab look at your own fabrications."
>>      , Sept. 3, 2009
>> --
>> 'I fully accept this, it's a fact. The discussion on Auschwitz, the gas
>> chambers and the Holocaust is finished ... it's useless to dispute it'.
>> (David Irving on Holocaust denial, as quoted by his Austrian lawyer)
>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2045740 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:20:39 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:25 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> You rally believe in you own Bullshit.
>
>No, I stick to believing reality.
>
>
>
>> What rail yards,
>
>The ones in the middle of the city.

LOL

The poor American smuck has obviously no clue as to the geography of
Dresden. This wasn't some cow-town in Kansas on flat terrain. There
was a passenger railway station downtown as in all other German
cities, but the railway marshalling yard you claim was the target was
in the suburbs and was not damaged during the attack. The industrial
areas of the city were not damaged either.

Would you care to float some more lies for me to demolish?

>
>
>
>> The destruction of
>> the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp.
>
>No, Americans are not responsible for German atrocities.
>
>
>
>> While
>> visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> because the rail was bombed out.
>
>American bombers did a lot of targeting of railyards.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:40 EDT 2009
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Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>
>The belted jerk of Nanimo justifies the murder of civilians.  So why
>the WP asshole?
>Why the anti-pregnant-women firestorm you moronic murderer?  You so
>brave like a crazy asshole.
>

Poor mcvay is blinded by racist hatred. Clearly Dresden was a very low
priority target that became important not because of anything it
contained, but because it had never been bombed before. It was the
ideal place to demonstrate the newly learned Anglo-American
fire-raising techniques, something that wouldn't work in a city that
already had too many ruins and too few combustibles. The same thing
was true of Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Both were militarily
insignificant, but they were virgin targets and hence ideal as test
subjects for the latest American mass-murder toy. Dropping an atomic
bomb on the ashes of Tokyo wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular as
hitting a previously undamaged city.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2045742 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:36 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 2:11 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>
>> > > What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and Dresden.
>>
>> > US bombers at Dresden were trying to hit the railyards.
>>
>> Bullshit.  Unless you are admiting that they fucked up big time.  But
>> then if railyards were the targets, why did they first start off with
>> HE and then move on to WP?  But then, I guess you need the brain of a
>> 10 year old to figure it out.
>
>No mistake.  We targeted the railyards.

Are you saying that American fliers are incompetent, inept fuckups?
They totally missed their target, if that was indeed their target.

>
>
>
>> > I am not familiar with the targeting details of Pforzheim.
>>
>> > > The indent of your allies was to bomb civilians to make the German soldiers
>> > > give up arms.
>>
>> > US bombers were aiming for legitimate targets -- like the Dresden
>> > railyards.
>>
>> Your point has been disproven.
>
>No it hasn't.
>
>
>
>> Not that it was a point.  It was a lie.
>
>You shouldn't run around falsely accusing people of your own
>dishonesty.
>
>
>
>> > > At one time there was a German soldier sitting with us in the
>> > > basement. He said at least you can see what is ahead of you when you are in
>> > > the frontline, here you never know what is hitting you. As for Warsaw you
>> > > people complain the Germans bombed civilians. Well let me tell you when
>> > > German plains were shoot at from within civilian areas it becomes a military
>> > > target.
>> > > Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> > The Warsaw thing might have been legitimate combat (I'm not familiar
>> > with the incident in question), but the Holocaust was not a case of
>> > German planes returning fire.
>>
>> As soon as you provide evidence of killing gas chambers, we'll take
>> you seriously.  Until then I can only think that you have been
>> educated beyond your intelligence.
>
>Holocaust denying scumbag.


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Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:26:44 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>In what city you are talking about.

The self-serving American reports about Dresden are to be expected.
Americans always find some excuse for their atrocities. The fact is
that the city was not attacked during 1500 days of war, so it clearly
was NOT a militarily significant target. Its only significance later,
was the fact that it was initially undamaged and hence ideal to
demonstrate the newly learned Anglo-American fire-raising skills.


>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"I'll Always Be 4/09/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-A8B12B.12113804092009@aries.ka.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <8Gbom.42667$Db2.23822@edtnps83>,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and 
>>> Dresden.
>>
>> As has been explained to you repeatedly:
>>
>> The US Air Force Historical Division
>> wrote a report in response to the
>> international concern about the bombing,
>> which was classified until December
>> 1978.[30] This said that there were 110
>> factories and 50,000 workers in the city
>> supporting the German war effort at the
>> time of the raid.[31] According to the
>> report, there were aircraft components
>> factories; a poison gas factory
>> (Chemische Fabrik Goye and Company); an
>> anti-aircraft and field gun factory
>> (Lehman); an optical goods factory
>> (Zeiss Ikon AG); as well as factories
>> producing electrical and X-ray apparatus
>> (Koch and Sterzel AG); gears and
>> differentials (Saxoniswerke); and
>> electric gauges (Gebruder Bassler). It
>> also said there were barracks, and
>> hutted camps, and a munitions storage
>> depot.[32]
>>
>> The USAF report also states that two of
>> Dresden's traffic routes were of
>> military importance: north-south from
>> Germany to Czechoslovakia, and east-west
>> along the central European uplands.[33]
>> The city was at the junction of the
>> Berlin-Prague-Vienna railway line, as
>> well as the Munich-Breslau, and
>> Hamburg-Leipzig.[33] Colonel Harold E.
>> Cook, a US POW held in the
>> Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night
>> before the attacks, later said that "I
>> saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an
>> armed camp: thousands of German troops,
>> tanks and artillery and miles of freight
>> cars loaded with supplies supporting and
>> transporting German logistics towards
>> the east to meet the Russians."[34]
>>
>> Notice the testimony of Colonel Cook
>> since you seem to like to post fairy
>> tales about Military Personal.
>>
>>
>>
>> A report compiled for RAF Bomber Command
>> dated 28 June 1944, stated that
>> Pforzheim was "one of the centres of the
>> German jewellery and watch making trade
>> and is therefore likely to have become
>> of considerable importance to the
>> production of precision instruments [of
>> use in the war effort]." An Allied
>> report issued in August 1944 stated that
>> "almost every house in this town centre
>> is a small workshop" and that there were
>> a few larger factories in the south and
>> one in the north of the city centre. An
>> attack on the city would destroy the
>> "built-up area, the associated
>> industries and rail facilities".
>>
>>
>>
>>> The indent of your allies was to bomb civilians to make the German 
>>> soldiers
>>> give up arms.
>>
>> What was the intent of germany when it
>> bombed London?
>>
>>
>>> At one time there was a German soldier sitting with us in the
>>> basement.
>>
>> What basement? Why was he there and not
>> fighting? What was his name and rank?
>>
>>
>>> He said at least you can see what is ahead of you when you are in
>>> the frontline, here you never know what is hitting you.
>>
>> Then why wasn't he at the front?
>>
>>
>>> As for Warsaw you
>>> people complain the Germans bombed civilians. Well let me tell you when
>>> German plains were shoot at from within civilian areas it becomes a 
>>> military
>>> target.
>>
>> The people of dresden and Pforzheim
>> fired at allied planes so it became a
>> military target. Thank you for solving
>> that problem.
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Hiroshima Facts"  wrote in message
>>> news:c4fa36ff-2806-4043-8035-9e24b81c2c76@y9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>> > On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>>> >> > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>>> >> > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>> >>
>>> >> > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the
>>> >> > Nazi
>>> >> > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the 
>>> >> > city
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th.,
>>> >> > nearly
>>> >> > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as
>>> >> > Babi
>>> >> > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>>> >> > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In
>>> >> > subsequent
>>> >> > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>> >>
>>> >> > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>> >>
>>> >> The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>>> >> with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>> >
>>> > Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>>> > of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis. 
>


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Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2045744

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:27:46 +0200, Wolfgang Kueter
 wrote:

>Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>
>> On Sep 4, 5:22 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>
>>> Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.
>> 
>> Since your IQ is around -9, a third of that would be -27.
>
>Only in a revisionists world, in real world it is:  
>
>-9 * 1/3 = - 9/3 = -3
>
>> That suks. 
>
>Revisionists knowledge of spelling is obviously as low as their knowledge of
>maths.
>
>Wolfgang 

And what you do know or understand of anything, Küter? Are you one of
the new generation of Germans trained to lick American arse and
pronounce it delicious?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2045745 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 3:34 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 11:25 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> > > > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> > > > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> > > > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> > > > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> > > > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> > > > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> > > > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> > > > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> > > > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> > > > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> > > > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> > > The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> > > with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> > Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> > And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>> > of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.
>>
>> Liar.
>
>Nope.  All I did was point out historical reality.

LOL

>
>
>
>> I guess you are so stupid as to believe that your bullshit
>> tales will be believed by the intelligent among us.
>
>Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.

Americans have always been infamous for their gullible and totally
unreasonable overestimation of their own importance.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2045746 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:34:03 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 11:25 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> > > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> > > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> > > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> > > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> > > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> > > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> > > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> > > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> > > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> > > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> > > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> > The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> > with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>> of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.
>
>Liar.  I guess you are so stupid as to believe that your bullshit
>tales will be believed by the intelligent among us.

"Hiroshima Facts" is the sort of moron from whom we should shortly be
hearing "trillions" of victims of the axis, never mind such small
details as that there are not that many people on the planet.

Too many of the stories of the mvay crowd are just totally absurd.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2045747 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 15:21:57 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 7:27 am, Wolfgang Kueter  wrote:
>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>> > On Sep 4, 5:22 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.
>>
>> > Since your IQ is around -9, a third of that would be -27.
>>
>> Only in a revisionists world, in real world it is:  
>>
>> -9 * 1/3 = - 9/3 = -3
>>
>> > That suks.
>>
>> Revisionists knowledge of spelling is obviously as low as their knowledge of
>> maths.
>>
>> Wolfgang
>
>So my IQ is better than his?  Well that's OK I guess, but I was hoping
>it would be a little higher.
>Besides that, you suk.

What do you expect from some brain-washed latter day German who has
been taught self-hatred by the Americans.

Reality is that Germany was already a much more civilized place five
hundred years ago than the USA is today.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2045748 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It's kind of funny
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 03:53:36 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 8:53 pm, I'll Always Be 5/09/09
> wrote:
>> In article
>> > er.gabrix.ath.cx>,
>>  noauth 
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > There is a new force in USENET. No longer
>> > will the jew be given free reign to poison
>> > the discussions with his cry of "6 million."
>>
>> > Legitimate researchers have placed the tab
>> > at no more than 500,000 people who died in
>> > the labor camps.
>>
>> > Buck Turgidson 
>>
>> You can always tell the poverty of your
>> ilks position by the frequency of nym
>> shifting.
>>
>> To quote that paragon of revisionism:
>> What is your real name?
>
>You're a real hoot!  You change your nym every day.

It is a feeble-minded attempt to evade garbage filters.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2045980 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 11:35 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 5:33 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 4, 3:56 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > That's because Japan was willing to fight a war using troops.  You
>> > > coward shite burned civilians by the hundres of thousands.
>>
>> > You've gotta be a real retard to suggest that US soldiers in the
>> > Pacific were cowardly.
>>
>> > You'd wet yourself if you had to face the fighting our guys faced on
>> > Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
>>
>> The only way youse won the war was to nuke civilians.  that's real
>> brave man it really is.
>
>I see you flunked history.  We took Japanese soldiers head on all
>across the Pacific and defeated them.
>
>And the nukes were dropped on military targets.

Bullshit from an American idiot.

>
>
>
>> How many US civilians did the Japs burn?
>
>I'd guess that between the two bombs collateral damage was about
>175,000.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2045981 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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rOn Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:17:15 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:51:33 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>> >> >> in Japan.
>>
>> >> >The A-bombs struck military targets
>>
>> >> That is utter crap and even you cannot be so stupid as to not realize
>> >> that a nuclear bomb is an attack on an entire city, by definition a
>> >> war crime, and not an attack on a "military target".
>>
>> >Nope.  Hiroshima was a major military center filled with tens of
>> >thousands of Japanese troops.
>>
>> You could say the same thing about virtually any city in the totally
>> militaristic USA, but the presence of a few soldiers does not justify
>> somebody taking out New York City.
>
>Hiroshima had a lot more than a few soldiers.  It was a huge military
>center.
>
>And no, not every city in the USA is a major military center.
>
>
>
>
>> >> Your simple-minded reasoning would be the same as justifying the mass
>> >> murder of the five million residents of Manhattan in order to take out
>> >> a small factory that makes swimming goggles that could conceivably be
>> >> used by military divers somewhere.
>>
>> >The huge numbers of soldiers in Hiroshima, and the huge weapons
>> >industry of Nagasaki, are hardly comparable to a swimming goggle
>> >factory.
>>
>> That is all irrelevant. Had the murderous Americans attacked the
>> actual industrial areas or miltary areas, there would be little
>> complaint, but they didn't.
>
>Nope.  We attacked right were the soldiers and factories were.

You took out two large cities in the greatest war crime of all time,
and which will stain the USA forever, or at least until its demise as
a world power which seems to be happening as we speak.

>
>
>
>
>> >> Your arguments are preposterous and amount to hate speech.
>>
>> >Nope.  My arguments are factual and amount to a straightforward
>> >recitation of the historical record.
>>
>> Your posts are straighforward recitations of American propaganda, but
>> hardly of the historical record.
>
>Nope.  What I said is completely in line with the historical record.
>
>
>
>
>> >> > and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>> >> > to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>>
>> >> This is more horseshit
>>
>> >Nope.  Japan sent no surrender offers until after both A-bombs were
>> >dropped.
>>
>> That is historically false.
>
>Nope.
>
>August 6: Hiroshima
>
>August 9: Nagasaki
>
>August 10: Japan's first offer to surrender
>
>August 14: Japan's first offer to surrender on acceptable terms
>
>August 17: Third A-bomb would have been dropped on Tokyo had Japan not
>surrendered

They didn't and wouldn't do that because rearranging ashes isn't that
spectacular. In any case it shows the American mindset that the ticket
to victory is an ever increasing orgy of civilian atrocities.

>
>
>
>
>> >> that has been conclusively disproven by
>> >> numerous authors.
>>
>> >Nope.  No one has disproved the fact that Japan sent no surrender
>> >offers until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>>
>> >(It would be pretty hard to disprove, given the reality that Japan
>> >didn't send any such offer, at least not until both A-bombs were
>> >dropped.)
>>
>> Again, you're talking through your hat, but that is hardly news.
>
>Nope.  All I'm doing is pointing out reality.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2045982 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:00:45 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 7:35 pm, ZuLu  wrote:
>> Hiroshima Facts escribió:
>> > On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>> >> in Japan.
>>
>> > The A-bombs struck military targets and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>> > to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>>
>> And they will be always people to believe it.
>
>The record is pretty straightforward on the matter.

LOL

You are so gullible. American records justifying American atrocities
are not worth much.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2045983 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 09:59:56 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:31:48 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 4:25 pm, George  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 5, 7:58 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > You justify the bombing of innocents in Dresden?  How dare you you
>> >> > mook.  
>>
>> >> mook?
>>
>> >>  Is our little nazi wannabe throwing the toys out of his cot.
>> >> After that little run of nazi denial and rabid hate posts whoever
>> >> medicates him should refer to Michael Jacksons doctor for his formulae
>>
>> >You once again pig out like a pig when using the word 'nazi'.
>> >Definitions please!
>>
>> A "Nazi" is anybody that poor simple-minded George doesn't like.
>
>That's about it.  You'd think that they would grow tired of trotting
>out the same crap day after day.  I guess they got nothing else to
>trot out.  It's always gotta be:  sssssssssssssNAZI!!!!
>ssssssssssssssDENIER!!!!!
>ssssssssssssssssssssRACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

George is an endless loop babbling the same horsehit over and over and
over again.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:45 EDT 2009
Article: 2045984 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of children
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On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:03:41 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>I personally think the use this holocaust denial crab to scare others.

It is an intimidation technique that seems to work in many cases, at
least until they finally wear out the term "Nazi" and people just
ignore it. With the loss of that word, George & Co lose much of their
clout.

>KK
>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:e7340dc9-2b9c-487e-9c89-c1634f28e88f@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:31:48 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 4:25 pm, George  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 5, 7:58 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > You justify the bombing of innocents in Dresden? How dare you you
>> >> > mook.
>>
>> >> mook?
>>
>> >> Is our little nazi wannabe throwing the toys out of his cot.
>> >> After that little run of nazi denial and rabid hate posts whoever
>> >> medicates him should refer to Michael Jacksons doctor for his formulae
>>
>> >You once again pig out like a pig when using the word 'nazi'.
>> >Definitions please!
>>
>> A "Nazi" is anybody that poor simple-minded George doesn't like.
>
>That's about it.  You'd think that they would grow tired of trotting
>out the same crap day after day.  I guess they got nothing else to
>trot out.  It's always gotta be:  sssssssssssssNAZI!!!!
>ssssssssssssssDENIER!!!!!
>ssssssssssssssssssssRACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:45 EDT 2009
Article: 2045985 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 7, 3:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> According to George, Nazis are people who are opposed to the murder of
>> small children, so perhaps Nazis are not that bad and it is George who
>> is evil.
>
>Your strawman fails.
>
>There are a few criminal groups throughout the world who are nazis and
>who follow the insanity that set the world afire 70 years ago.

The Nazis were mere choir boys compared to the Anglo-Americans.

>
>Nazis nil
>The World Won

The world won nothing, but the USA pummeled the world ripe for
American exploitation. Thanks to American greed and stupidity, we now
have a dying planet and a humanity with no future.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:45 EDT 2009
Article: 2045986 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:51:36 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 4:06 pm, George  wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 3:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> > According to George, Nazis are people who are opposed to the murder of
>> > small children, so perhaps Nazis are not that bad and it is George who
>> > is evil.
>>
>> Your strawman fails.
>>
>> There are a few criminal groups throughout the world who are nazis and
>> who follow the insanity that set the world afire 70 years ago.
>>
>> Nazis nil
>> The World Won
>
>Um George, The natSocs did not set the world on fire.  The allies
>tried and succeeded in setting cities on fire.  Who declared war on
>whom?  The invasion of Poland was not 'setting the world on fire'.

The Polish campaign was over and done with in 18 days. Poland, a
fascist state just like Germany, was invaded by Germany (for valid
reasons) and the USSR (for reasons of greed and world domination
ambitions) but the stupid Brits only made an issue of the German
involvement. 

George always whines about the holocaust, but it would not have ever
happened except for the Anglo-French attack against Germany. Obviously
George figures that the holocaust was an acceptable price to pay for
German defeat, so why the fuck is he continuously whining in my ear?
George got his wish, so he needs now to stop all the fucking whining
and move on.




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2045987 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:02:23 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 6:27 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 5:29 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 4, 3:43 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > You once again bring up Jewish children.  The allies targeted
>> > > civilians which I have shown to include, pregnant women, old men,
>> > > boys, homosexuals, disciples of bondage, and of course hitler youth.
>>
>> > Nope.  Only the Axis targeted civilians.
>>
>> Your lies are incredibly transparent.
>
>Stop whining.  The only ones lying here are you Nazis.

Virtually every statement to come out of Washington since July 4, 1776
has been a lie, so obviously the Nazis were mere school-boys at the
art of fibbing. The Americans were and are the master liars.

Americans such as "Hiroshima Shmuck" piss me off so much that were I
to encounter a wounded American soldier, I would just spit in his face
and walk on, leaving the ignorant bastard to his fate.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:46 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>>
>> The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
>> against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
>> facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
>> Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
>> declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
>> Anglo-American terrorist bombing.
>
>Nope.  It was the Axis who targeted civilians, not the Allies.

You are wrong. The Axis powers didn't even own a fleet of holocaust
bombers like Britain or the USA. The British holocaust fleet was
started in 1922, years before Hitler or the Nazis were anywhere near
power. Obviously, civilian atrocities featured in British plans from
just after WW1.

Americans, by contrast, are just war profiteers whose plan it was to
supplant Britain as the world's dominant power. The British were just
stupid enough to fall for the American bait.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2045989 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 3:20 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
>> > against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
>> > facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
>> > Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
>> > declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
>> > Anglo-American terrorist bombing.
>>
>> Nope.  It was the Axis who targeted civilians, not the Allies.
>
>So Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, Hamburg, Hanover, them was
>flying mistakes?  Navigator problems?  Oooops.  There goes another
>100K innocents into the fire.  Hey HF, you kind of stupid?

Americans are proven incompetents, but in these instances I think that
the sloppiness was deliberate, with a view to maximizing civilian
casualties.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:47 EDT 2009
Article: 2045990 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 10:02:06 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:57:21 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 8:09 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 3, 7:21 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> >> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:8e375373-1fe0-4edc-a9c3-4f7ed9144c99@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities
>> >> > > > > based on
>> >> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted
>> >> > > > > Children!
>>
>> >> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> > > That is incorrect. The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage. That is anything but
>> >> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> > [quote]
>> >> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.  But as
>> >> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> >> > onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> >> > But it's still garlic.
>> >> > [/quote]
>>
>> >> > This isn't a question of type token distinction.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
>> >> > Take "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" - how many words there ? Three? or
>> >> > Ten? If there are ten words there how is one "rose" different to the other?
>> >> > If all roses are the same how can you tell?
>>
>> >> > In addition:
>> >> > Onions are part of the lily family too!
>> >> > You are just saying that BOTH onions and garlic are still lilies even
>> >> > thought they are part of the sub group garlic and onion!
>> >> > So how come "blanket bombing" and murder can't BOTH be "killing people" and
>> >> > one be a sub group of "direct targeting" and the other "collateral damage"
>>
>> >> Collateral damage refers to unavoidable civilian deaths when a
>> >> military target has been attacked.
>> >> Taking Dresden as an example, civilians were directly targeted.
>>
>> >No, the US target at Dresden was the railyards.
>>
>> The Americans must be the most incompetent warriors in the history of
>> humanity, since trains were rolling through Dresden on schedule within
>> a few hours of the attack. American incompetence and ineptitude is
>> causing NATO to lose in Afghanistan. The only British and French
>> casualties during the first Gulf War were caused by American
>> incompetence and ineptitude. American "help" generally produces more
>> casualties than enemy action.
>>
>>
>>
>> >I'm not too familiar with UK targeting, but they seemed to be focussed
>> >on the war industry at Dresden.

There was no war industry at Dresden, unless porcelain plates and cups
count as war industry.

>
>Don't forget the first casualties that the Canadians took in
>Afghanistan.  Four soldiers killed by some kill crazy US pilots.  The
>US was always known for pulling the trigger and little else.

Most of the hatred of the local people for NATO has been generated by
clueless Yankee cowboys who attack wedding parties and school
receptions.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:47 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>Napalm airstrikes allowed our guys to burn away the Iraqi guards
>without damaging the bridges and without risking casualties.

I'm starting to understand the motivation of the people who created
9/11. People such as "Hiroshima Facts" are disgusting beyond words,
but he really shows the cowardly American soldier for the pieces of
human garbage that they are. Having met HF, it now gives me a warm
fuzzy feeling when I see the remains of bastardly American service
personnel return to the States in caskets.

May they all have their shot at coming home in a casket.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:48 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:18:48 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 10:39 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> > > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> >> Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> >> that are not targeted.
>>
>> >> The Allies targeted things like war industry and enemy soldiers.  It
>> >> was the Axis that targeted civilians.
>>
>> >> > But as
>> >> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> >> > onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> >> > But it's still garlic.
>> >> > White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon
>>
>> >> Actually WP is a smoke device for obscuring movement on the
>> >> battlefield.
>>
>> >> > and so is
>> >> > napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> >> Napalm is a perfectly legal weapon.
>>
>> >> The target at Tokyo was all the war industry in the city.
>>
>> >Bull roar you moronic flying pig.  You gotta take a risk in war if you
>> >wanna blow shit up honourably.  If you wanna axe like aminals and be a
>> >Yankee then go for it like a coward.
>>
>> The attack on Tokyo, and most other Japanese cities, was pure
>> terrorism carried out with a load of more than 99% incendiaries, bombs
>> that would do little or no damage to heavy factory buildings, but
>> would cause the wooden houses of the Japanese lower classes go up in
>> flames.
>>
>> Were you to do a Tokyo-style attack against Queens, the borough of New
>> York, most of it would burn down leaving its multi-million population
>> homeless, but the industrial areas would remain standing and
>> functional since those structures are not that vulnerable to
>> incendiaries.
>>
>> All that "Hiroshima Facts" has to say about anything can be pretty
>> much summed up as nonsense.
>
>I note the fact that the Tokyo bombing successfully destroyed industry
>in the targeted area.....

Even if that were true, and I seriously doubt it based on what I've
read over the years about the American bombing campaign in Japan, it
still wouldn't justify the American terrorist bombing. Americans are
racist scum, the only country to have racially-based slavery in modern
times.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:48 EDT 2009
Article: 2045993 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 7:49 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 5, 6:32 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > No it didn't! Unjustified as it was there were maybe dozens of civilians at
>> > most killed in Falluja. It was not an attempt to exterminate all the
>> > population. The highest estimates of deaths caused BY WAR (and that is all
>> > deaths and not genocide) is between 300,000 and one million. The genocide
>> > total is zero so far.
>>
>> Are you trying to justify a few hundred thousand murders as
>> inconsequential?
>
>Aside from the reality that collateral damage is hardly murder, there
>is also the reality that the collateral damage was no more than a
>tenth that figure.
>
>
>
>> You are full of it as usual. The Americans invaded a sovereign
>> country.  They invaded and murdered civlians in Falluja.
>
>We committed no murders at Fallujah.

You behaved the same way that you accuse Nazis of behaving, so if
those were murders, so are yours.

>
>
>
>> They threw
>> WP as an offensive weapon.
>
>It was perfectly legal for us to do so.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:48 EDT 2009
Article: 2045994 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:22:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>>
>> >> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> >Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> >that are not targeted.
>>
>> So, "Hiroshima Facts", the people who arranged 9/11 would have been
>> perfectly justified, according to your logic, if they had named a
>> single person as the target of the attack, then the other 2,999
>> victims could have been dismissed as "collateral damage". The Israelis
>> use that same sort of sophistry in their justifications for outrages
>> in the West Bank and Gaza.
>
>The World Trade Center did not contain any legitimate targets.

Dresden countained no legitimate targets either, but that didn't deter
the Anglo-American holocaust fleet.

>
>And al-Qa'ida admits that they target civilians.

Most of that sort of thing is the work of Israelis, who use American
atrocities as their model, since the USA is their murderous patron.

>
>It is hardly an outrage for Israelis to defend themselves from those
>evil Palestinians.

The Palestinians are simply defending their ancestral home from
merciless European invaders. Israel is a terrorist state founded by
terrorists and maintained by terrorists. Religious myths are not a
solid foundation for territorial claims, especially thousands of years
later.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:49 EDT 2009
Article: 2045995 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier Irving 'expert' on WWII
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:41:32 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:s-SdnatlfJUcbD7XnZ2dnUVZ_hti4p2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "keiner da" Cross and  wrote:
>>
>>>And then we have the other twist. Anyone who critics the holocaust is a
>>>holocaust denier and must therefore be a liar. Honesty is something the
>>>holocaust promoters have never known. The want us to listening to the and
>>>ignore all others.
>>
>> Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll, the Laughing Stock of UseNet,
>> is lying - again.
>>
>> He is not only lying, but doing so intentionally, because he knows full
>> well that German historians of the Functionalist and Intentionalist
>> schools have debated - and thus criticized - Holocaust historiography
>> for decades.
>How much of it and only what they are alloewd to see.

The whole Functionalist and Intentionalist crap sounds suspiciously
like the non-issues of the Big-Endians and Little-Endians of
Gulliver's Travels fame. 

>kk
>
>>
>> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_versus_intentionalism
>> for details.
>>
>> Historians like Hans Mommsen, a member of the Social Democratic Party of
>> Germany who has taught at Tuebingen and Bochum, Martin Broszat (Cologne,
>> and the IFZ, Munich), Andreas Hillgruber (d. 1989, having taught at
>> Marburg, Freiburg and Cologne)...
>>
>> Karl Bracher (Berlin, Bonn - Wikipedia says, "Bracher has often
>> CRITICIZED the functionist-structuralist interpretation of the Third
>> Reich championed by such scholars such as Martin Broszat and Hans
>> Mommsen, and decried their view of Hitler as a 'weak dictator'. In
>> Bracher's view, Hitler was the 'Master of the Third Reich'. With
>> respect to the genesis of the Holocaust, he is a confirmed
>> Intentionalist. It is his position that the entire project of the
>> genocide of European Jewry resulted from Adolf Hitler's
>> anti-Semitic hatred."), Klaus Hildebrand (Bonn)...
>>
>> Eberhard Jaeckel (Stuttgart - Wikipedia says, "Jäckel is one of
>> the leading Intentionalists in regard to the Functionalism versus
>> Intentionalism debate, arguing from the 1960s on that there was a
>> long range plan on the part of Hitler to exterminate the Jewish
>> people from about 1924 on, views that led to INTENSE DEBATES with
>> Functionalist historians such as Hans Mommsen and Martin Broszat.
>> Recently, Jäckel has modified his position. He now believes that
>> most of the initiatives for the Holocaust came from Hitler, though
>> it was more the result of a series of ad hoc decisions rather a
>> masterplan on the part of Hitler. In the Historikerstreit (Historians'
>> Dispute) of the 1986-1988, Jäckel was a prominent critic of
>> Ernst Nolte, whose theory of Nazi crimes as a reaction to Soviet
>> crimes was denounced as ahistorical by Jäckel under the grounds
>> that Hitler held the Soviet Union in contempt and therefore could
>> not have possibly felt threatened by the Soviets as Nolte suggested.")...
>>
>> (Emphasis mine)
>>
>> CRITICIZED, Leading Revisionist Scholar Knoll?
>> INTENSE DEBATES, Leading Revisionist Scholar Knoll?
>>
>> You people sure are DUMB.
>>
>> -- 
>> "Hey Kenneth there are people dying now that never did dye before."
>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat's Leading Revisionist Scholar and Reigning
>> Village Idiot)
>> The Nizkor Project                            http://www.nizkor.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:49 EDT 2009
Article: 2045996 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:09:09 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 7, 3:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:19:47 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sep 5, 1:39 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> >> A Zionist apologist criticizing an alleged Nazi apologist is more than
>> >> a little hypocritical. Why are the same actions excusable for Zionists
>> >> but wicked for Nazis?
>>
>> >Funny how you bought the term 'alleged' in.
>> >You have a history of anti Jewish Holocaust denial posts.
>>
>> Show me an anti-Jewish post that I allegedly wrote. You will not find
>> any. I dispute some of your nonsense stories, but I have no animus
>> against Jews.
>>
>> >Or for the purposes of the exercise are you now going to say that you
>> >don't ?
>>
>> >And while you''re at it find any post of mine where I am a 'Zionist
>> >apologist' without good cause..
>>
>> For you, Zionists are incapable of doing any wrong. That amounts to
>> pretty blind partisanship.
>>
>
>Produce evidence that that is my position !

Pick a "George" post at random, and the flavour will be there.

>
>As you are a nazi apologist

That is unsupported conjecture by a partisan propagandist. I wasn't
even alive during the NS period and I'm not a supporter of that brand
of politics. You come across like a Bushevik Republican, so your
beliefs are far closer to those of fascists than mine.


> I expect the raising of numerous strawmen

You are the expert at theme changes and strawmen. Don't try to put
your crap on me.

>and no actual addressing of the point or an apology .

All you do is call people names. I don't ever recall seeing one of
your posts having any substance. You figure that calling people by the
now totally meaningless label of "Nazi", you have said something, but
you haven't, unless mere expulsion of hot air is saying something.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2045997 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:35:37 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> >> In article ,
>> >> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> >> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> >> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> >> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> >> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> >> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> >> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> >> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> >> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> >> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> >> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> >> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> >> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> >> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> >> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> >> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> >> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> >> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> >> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> >> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>> >The belted jerk of Nanimo justifies the murder of civilians.  So why
>> >the WP asshole?
>> >Why the anti-pregnant-women firestorm you moronic murderer?  You so
>> >brave like a crazy asshole.
>> >
>>
>> Poor mcvay is blinded by racist hatred. Clearly Dresden was a very low
>> priority target that became important not because of anything it
>> contained, but because it had never been bombed before.
>
>The railyards were a legitimate target.

Had the attack actually targeted the railway yards, it would have been
legitimate, but it didn't. The attack had its focus on the medieval
downtown because that is where all the buildings that still had
significant wood content were standing. You can't create a firestorm
without combustibles, nor can you create a firestorm with steel tracks
and concrete railway ties. So your claim is a strawman designed to
deflect criticism of an obvious and deliberate civilian atrocity.
Statements by various British officials from Churchill on down the
command chain make the intent of the attack quite clear, and it simply
wasn't what you claim.

The "heroic" American airmen, who HF claims were assigned to attacking
the railway yards in the suburbs, were seen by thousands straffing the
shores of the Elb River where thousands of hospital patients had been
evacuated from the burning old city. That doesn't exactly fit with
your "railway yard" paradigm. Your story is full of holes and makes no
sense.
>
>
>
>> The same thing
>> was true of Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Both were militarily
>> insignificant,
>
>Wrong again.  Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of
>thousands of soldiers.

Bullshit.

>
>Nagasaki was an industrial center full of weapons factories.

Bullshit.

>
>
>
>> Dropping an atomic
>> bomb on the ashes of Tokyo wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular as
>> hitting a previously undamaged city.
>
>Actually, the US military was pushing to nuke Tokyo next because they
>thought it *would* be more spectacular if the Japanese government say
>a mushroom cloud from up close.

The before and after pictures would look much the same, since
rearranged ashes don't look that much different from earlier. The
results would be singularly unspectacular which is why the American
propaganda machine didn't do it.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2045998 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: dumbass barry and his theory of collateral damage goes down the  drain
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:24:11 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:26:47 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 3, 9:07 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> Lest we forget...http://www.whale.to/b/walsh1.html
>> >> some excerpts:
>>
>> >> { it is a little known fact that allied air attacks on France alone
>> >> resulted in far more deaths and injuries than from German attacks}
>>
>> >> {Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan’s only two Christian cities come first
>> >> to mind when one considers total incineration from the air
>>
>> >When did Hiroshima become a Christian city?
>>
>> It became the centre of Christianity in Japan about 300 years ago.
>
>No it didn't.  The center of Christianity was Nagasaki.

Actually, this time you are right. It was actually Nagasaki. I suppose
you can't be wrong about everything ALL the time.

>
>No history classes in Germany?

Their educational system is dramatically better than that of the USA
where a large percentage of adults is utterly incapable of writing
more than a few sentences without dozens of mistakes in spelling and
grammar.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2045999 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:28:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:20:39 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 3:25 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> >> You rally believe in you own Bullshit.
>>
>> >No, I stick to believing reality.
>>
>> >> What rail yards,
>>
>> >The ones in the middle of the city.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> The poor American smuck has obviously no clue as to the geography of
>> Dresden.
>
>That was an interesting gamble for you to take, but unfortunately for
>you I've seen maps showing where the railyards were.

I've been there in person, so I know better.

>
>
>
>> This wasn't some cow-town in Kansas on flat terrain. There
>> was a passenger railway station downtown as in all other German
>> cities, but the railway marshalling yard you claim was the target was
>> in the suburbs
>
>Nope.  The railyards were near the center of the city.

There is no "centre". The city is built along the banks of the Elbe in
the valley of the Elbe. In any case, the facility was not badly
damaged, so that trains were running on schedule a few hours after the
attack.

>
>
>
>> Would you care to float some more lies for me to demolish?
>
>I note the reality that you are the liar and I am the one demolishing
>lies.

No, HF, you're full of hateful shit, like most American warmongers.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2046000 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:41:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 2:35 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >  wrote:
>> > >On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> > >> In article ,
>> > >> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> > >> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> > >> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> > >> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> > >> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> > >> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> > >> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> > >> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> > >> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> > >> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> > >> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> > >> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> > >> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> > >> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> > >> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> > >> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> > >> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> > >> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> > >> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> > >> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>> > >The belted jerk of Nanimo justifies the murder of civilians.  So why
>> > >the WP asshole?
>> > >Why the anti-pregnant-women firestorm you moronic murderer?  You so
>> > >brave like a crazy asshole.
>> > >
>>
>> > Poor mcvay is blinded by racist hatred. Clearly Dresden was a very low
>> > priority target that became important not because of anything it
>> > contained, but because it had never been bombed before.
>>
>> The railyards were a legitimate target.
>>
>> > The same thing
>> > was true of Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Both were militarily
>> > insignificant,
>>
>> Wrong again.  Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of
>> thousands of soldiers.
>>
>
>The non-shitty method of fighting those soldiers is to fight those
>soldiers.  Not murder babies from the air.

Murdering babies is an American tradition that we keep seeing over and
over and over again, with the most recent examples being Afghanistan
and Iraq.

>
>> Nagasaki was an industrial center full of weapons factories.
>>
>> > Dropping an atomic
>> > bomb on the ashes of Tokyo wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular as
>> > hitting a previously undamaged city.
>>
>> Actually, the US military was pushing to nuke Tokyo next because they
>> thought it *would* be more spectacular if the Japanese government say
>> a mushroom cloud from up close.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2046001 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <72147b83-7990-4cac-8ee2-5be32bd7d7c6@h13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>    <8Gbom.42667$Db2.23822@edtnps83> <712482d4-b9a2-42f0-aee3-1c73d96e321a@h13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>   <24352021-864a-43bf-b546-7341f01d62b9@x38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> >> What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and Dresden.
>>
>> >US bombers at Dresden were trying to hit the railyards.
>>
>> That is utter nonsense. The Anglo-American bombing fleet was trying
>> out the fire-raising techniques they had learned in other German
>> cities and trying it out on a virgin target, since Dresden had never
>> been bombed previously. The attack was against the medieval city core,
>> not against the railway yards.
>
>Having trouble telling the US from the UK?
>
>It was the UK that started the firestorm in the medieval city core.
>US bombers had nothing to do with it.

It was a coordinated mass murder campaign there as in countless other
places in Germany. American precision bombing is a myth. Americans,
like their British counterparts, were into wide area bombing in a big
way. German cities are almost impossible to set on fire, and even more
difficult to blow up, but with a carefully coordinated attack they can
be set on fire, at least the old medieval ones. The Anglo-American
mass-murder campaign had no success in Berlin, which is too modern a
city with streets that are far too wide to allow a fire-storm to take
hold. 

By contrast, setting Japanese cities on fire is relatively easy, since
the Japanese use mainly wood in the construction of private homes,
just like Americans. American cities would go up in flames just with
the use of incendiaries. There would be absolutely no need for
high-explosive bombs to soften up the target before the use of the
incendiaries.

For the murderous American savages, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden
were ideal for their genocidal purposes because the one thing all
three cities had in common was that they were all initially undamaged,
that is "virgin targets". Most of the damage in all three places was
done by the fire-storm following the actual attack, with the main
difference being that Dresden required almost 1,000 aircraft to set
the city on fire, whereas in Japan two small nuclear bombs were able
to set the fire-storm more or less instantly. Modern concrete and
brick buildings survived right up to ground zero in both places.

>
>
>
>> In any case, the trains were running
>> unimpeded through the railway yards less than three hours after the
>> attack. You leave the impression that American service people would
>> have trouble hitting a barn with their pistol from the inside if it
>> was the railway yard that they were after. The railway yards are in
>> the suburbs, not in the medieval core.
>
>Nope.  The railyards were near the center of the city.
>
>
>
>> >I am not familiar with the targeting details of Pforzheim.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> There seem to be a lot of things with which you are totally
>> unfamiliar.
>
>I seem to be doing well enough to debunk all your nonsense.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2046002 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:24:52 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 4, 11:47 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 5:22 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 4, 3:34 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Sep 4, 11:25 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > > > On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> > > > > > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> > > > > > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> > > > > > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> > > > > > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> > > > > > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> > > > > > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> > > > > > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> > > > > > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> > > > > > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> > > > > > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> > > > > The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> > > > > with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> > > > Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> > > > And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>> > > > of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.
>>
>> > > Liar.
>>
>> > Nope.  All I did was point out historical reality.
>>
>> > > I guess you are so stupid as to believe that your bullshit
>> > > tales will be believed by the intelligent among us.
>>
>> > Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.
>>
>> Since your IQ is around -9, a third of that would be -27.  That suks.
>
>LOL!  You Nazis sure get childish.

Here we go again with the meaningless use of "Nazi". You're starting
to sound like a sock-puppet of George.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2046003 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <72147b83-7990-4cac-8ee2-5be32bd7d7c6@h13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>    <4kj7a55pjbavarpkj9q66slimv5bc7s6v5@4ax.com> <2c91fbd7-9b56-4cb1-890f-e9eb4354f0cc@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:25:10 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> >> > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> >> > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> >> > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> >> > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> >> > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> >> > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> >> > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> >> > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> >> > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> >> > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> >> > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> >> The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> >> with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> >Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> No matter how many times you repeat this bullshit, it remains
>> bullshit.
>
>No matter how much you don't like reality, reality isn't BS.

You are correct in saying that reality isn't bullshit, but your babble
is bullshit and hence fails the test of reality.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2046004 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The cremation capacity in Auschwitz. CREMATION AT NAZI CAMPS: why , how , where & REAL NUMBERS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:28:45 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"ZuLu"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:4aa17fc2$1@news.x-privat.org...
>> RJ11 escribió:
>>> In article <4a86c0af$1@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu   
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>
>>>>>    In a memo written on September 8 1942,  Kurt Prufer of the
>>>>> firm "Topf and Sons" stated that Auschwitz officials are not
>>>>> satisfied with a cremation capacity of 2,650 corpses per day,
>>>>> and "we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible".
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/
>>>
>Well over 400 000 people were taken to Treblinka fom Warsaw.  What happened 
>to them ? I have´nt seen any of them since.

You draw these figures from a hat, Topi, or what? How were they
transported? Who were they? What were they? Why were they taken to
Treblinka? Who says that they were taken to Treblinka?

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2046005 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No evidence, just insults
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:01:49 +1000, "Malakh" 
wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:drOdnRakkOq8oT7XnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message 
>> news:m9SdnTncsMnRqj7XnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Why is it that the people who claim "The Holocaust" happened never 
>>> produce
>>> reliable evidence?  They just hurl insults.
>>
>> So, you seem to be completely unaware of the vast amount of evidence and 
>> the many historians and researchers who have published on the topic over 
>> the last sixty years, and have mistaken your lack of awareness for 
>> reality.
>>
>> I suggest you should do a little bit of research *before* posting.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>
>As the OP says - No evidence, just insults.

That is Patrick's idea of discussion and argument.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2046006 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Obama Needs To Commence The Extermination Of The America Hating  Radical Right
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Robert of St Louis
 wrote:

>I have never ever seen or met a fiscal consevative Republican.

It must be in the breed. Every Conservative (Tory) government in
Canada has also been a financial disaster.

> There
>are republicans who 'say' that is one of their goals, but they sure in
>the hell never put it into practice.

Tories are there to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. I
suspect that Republicans are no different.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2046090 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 7, 8:51 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 4:06 pm, George  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 7, 3:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> > > According to George, Nazis are people who are opposed to the murder of
>> > > small children, so perhaps Nazis are not that bad and it is George who
>> > > is evil.
>>
>> > Your strawman fails.
>>
>> > There are a few criminal groups throughout the world who are nazis and
>> > who follow the insanity that set the world afire 70 years ago.
>>
>> > Nazis nil
>> > The World Won
>>
>> Um George, The natSocs did not set the world on fire.  The allies
>> tried and succeeded in setting cities on fire.  Who declared war on
>> whom?  The invasion of Poland was not 'setting the world on fire'.
>
>Oh?
>Rotterdam?

This was militarily correct according to the conventions, since there
was a German army on the ground in a position to capture the city. The
city council waited too long to make up its mind, so that some of an
ordered air-strike could not be recalled. There were fewer than 1,000
fatalities.

>Coventry?

This was a military attack on the British aircraft industry,
specifically Rolls Royce, where there were some unfortunate collateral
casualties. There were fewer than 400 fatalities.

>London?

London was a military error provoked by six months of British
terrorist bombing over Germany. It would have been smarter to ignore
London and continue with the attacks against the airfields. The
attacks on London resulted in approximately 17,000 fatalities, a large
number, but still trivial compared to the toll from British terrorist
bombing in Germany.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep  8 02:58:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2046091 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jew Christ Killers Our Greatest Threat - Not Islam
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:08:05 -0700 (PDT), cornholio
 wrote:

>Yeshua was Jewish islamoretard -- as were ALL his
>apostles.

LOL, Retarded Cornholer, Islam did not even exist until AD622.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2046255 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 06:36:01 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 7, 3:35 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:d3e4e793-0e2a-49e5-86b6-c0caacd32e9d@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 6, 3:20 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:> On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
>> > > against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
>> > > facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
>> > > Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
>> > > declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
>> > > Anglo-American terrorist bombing.
>>
>> > Nope. It was the Axis who targeted civilians, not the Allies.
>>
>> [quote]
>> So Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, Hamburg, Hanover, them was
>> flying mistakes?  Navigator problems?  Oooops.  There goes another
>> 100K innocents into the fire.  Hey HF, you kind of stupid?
>> [/quote]
>>
>> That is a straw man! I didn't justify blanket bombing of any civilians but
>> iot is an entirely different matter to injecting children.
>
>Are you saying that injecting children is different than burning them,
>tearing their limbs off, exposing their guts; are you saying that it
>is different than injecting them?  Of course it's different.

The technique of turning the people into corpses is indeed different,
but not the immorality.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2046256 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The cremation capacity in Auschwitz. CREMATION AT NAZI CAMPS: why , how , where & REAL NUMBERS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:53:42 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:gef8a59aamt0t9nrtpdqbaqoi7h5njunq3@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>Well over 400 000 people were taken to Treblinka fom Warsaw.  What 
>>>happened
>>>to them ? I have´nt seen any of them since.
>>
>> You draw these figures from a hat, Topi, or what? How were they
>> transported? Who were they? What were they? Why were they taken to
>> Treblinka? Who says that they were taken to Treblinka?
>>
>>>
>>>Topi
>>>
>Not from the Hat, Mein von. Where were they taken to? To Berlin? Here is 
>some reading for You to do.

You still haven't said anything, and self-serving Polish propaganda
sites are not very convincing. Historically, the Poles have been
dramatically more anti-Semitic than Germans ever were, which is part
of the reason that Germany was flooded with Polish Jews.


>
>http://warszawa.getto.pl/index.php?show=instrukcja&lang=en
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2046257 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why does Prussian Blue matter?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:25:20 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message 
>news:cpqdnZTfprVlbDnXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Urban Moving Systems Inc. wrote:
>>
>>> Why does Prussian Blue matter?
>>
>> It proves that there were not homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>
>No, it does not.    There is a rather large amount of proof that there were, 
>in fact, homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz.

If that were true, there would be no "revisionists".

>
>In fact, even the otherwise scientifically worthless Leuchter "report", for 
>all of its flaws, confirms that the the chambers were used pretty much as 
>described. 

Leuchter's findings did no such thing, which is why he was
relentlessly hounded by the holocaust cult.

>  Leuchter, however, didn't know what his findings meant, any 
>more than he knew how to construct a test, take samples, or how to have the 
>samples evaluated.

The holocaust cult wants nobody to do any chemical analysis there for
pretty obvious reasons.

>
>Hope this helps.
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2046258 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why does Prussian Blue matter?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:14:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message 
>news:ccydna_kLbAx7zjXnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>
>>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>>> news:cpqdnZTfprVlbDnXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Urban Moving Systems Inc. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why does Prussian Blue matter?
>>>>
>>>> It proves that there were not homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>>>
>>> No, it does not.    There is a rather large amount of proof that there
>>> were, in fact, homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz.
>>
>> Such as baseless assertion in support of the claim.
>
>Well, if wanted to check, the baseless assertions are coming from *you*.
>
>If you bothered to check at all, you would find that there is a very large 
>amount of evidence showing that there were homicidal gas chambers, from 
>testimony

There was a huge body of "testimony" about the hands of children being
hacked off during WW1, and all of it was shown to be fraudulent. You
need to show conclusively that this latest round of "testimony" is of
higher quality.


> and business records from those who worked on the contracts and 
>supplied the materials, to testimony from the participants, to all kinds of 
>records including transport records,  and chemical tests of the remains of 
>the structures used as gas chambers.

There were contractors for morgues and crematoria, but I have yet to
see a contract for somebody to install homicidal gas chambers. The
designs are so Mickey-Mouse™ as to be laughable.

>
>>
>>> In fact, even the otherwise scientifically worthless Leuchter "report",
>>> for all of its flaws, confirms that the the chambers were used pretty 
>>> much
>>> as
>>> described.   Leuchter, however, didn't know what his findings meant, any
>>> more than he knew how to construct a test, take samples, or how to have
>>> the samples evaluated.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> -pk
>>
>> I was talking about The Rudolf Report.
>
>Not a particularly smart move on your part, but that's hardly surprising 
>given the foolishness you've posted.
>
>The Rudolph report contains a number of fabrications and speculation that he 
>calls technical information, which also isn't suprising, coming as it does 
>from a guy who writes under fake names so he can pretend to find SOMEONE who 
>supports his crap.
>
>And let's not forget that Rudolf just isn't very bright.   You can't be 
>smart and apply for a US green card at a US immigration office, a few weeks 
>after being ordered deported from the US and a few blocks from the office 
>that issued the deportation order.
>
>If this had been an IQ test, Rudolf's results would be somewhere below room 
>temperature.
>
>Now, one blatant lie, or just one example of Rudolf's apalling lack of rigor 
>or fact-checking is found quite early in the Rudolf report: "the only 
>technical expert in the United States able to build and maintain this 
>equipment was Frederick A. Leuchter Jr., ".
>
>In reality, Leuchter isn't a technical expert, was unable to build any such 
>equipment, built *no* gassing equipment for *any* US prisons.  He was 
>eventually sold one lethal injection machine to one prison - but it had to 
>be modified *by competent technicians, not Leuchter* to work.
>
>What Leuchter was actually doing was running a shakedown scam.  He would 
>present himself to prison officials as an expert, and say that if they 
>didn't hire him, he would testify for the defence in capital punishment 
>appeals.   Eventually, most states forbade any dealings with him.
>
>As to other inaccuracies in the "Rudolf Report", have a look here:
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/r/rudolf.germar/rudolf-report.001
>
>But maybe you wanted to pretend that you didn't know any of this.
>
>Now, in reality,  Germar Rudolph actually says that chemistry cannot be used 
>to disprove the Holocaust.
>
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/
>"Furthermore, I am convinced that chemistry is not the science which can 
>prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust "rigorously".
>
>And so we see that even Rudolf doesn't buy the Rudolf Report, and certainly 
>not your interpretation of it.
>
>Do try to learn something about the topic before you reply.
>
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2046259 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why does Prussian Blue matter?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:25:55 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message 
>news:tJqdnV1--4av4DjXnZ2dnUVZ_gti4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>
>>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>>> news:ccydna_kLbAx7zjXnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>>>>> news:cpqdnZTfprVlbDnXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>>> Urban Moving Systems Inc. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why does Prussian Blue matter?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It proves that there were not homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it does not.    There is a rather large amount of proof that there
>>>>> were, in fact, homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz.
>>>>
>>>> Such as baseless assertion in support of the claim.
>>>
>>> Well, if wanted to check, the baseless assertions are coming from *you*.
>>>
>>> If you bothered to check at all, you would find that there is a very 
>>> large
>>> amount of evidence showing that there were homicidal gas chambers, from
>>> testimony and business records from those who worked on the contracts and
>>> supplied the materials, to testimony from the participants, to all kinds
>>> of
>>> records including transport records,  and chemical tests of the remains 
>>> of
>>> the structures used as gas chambers.
>>>
>>
>> There is much evidence revealing what happened at Auschwitz.  This is 
>> true.
>> That evidence all points away from the existence of homicidal gas 
>> chambers.
>
>No, it does not do that, as you'd know if you were remotely familiar with 
>the actual evidence rather than delusion and falsehood.

LOL

You sound like "Rev" Kennedy of Coral Ministry infamy expounding in
pseudoscientific bombast on the inerrancy of scripture, despite the
fact that it is patently obvious that the scriptures are collections
of myths and fables. The scriptures of your cult, the papers from the
Nuremberg show-trial, are likewise myths and fables.

>
>But for a laugh, perhaps you can tell us - assuming you even know which camp 
>at Auschwitz you pretend to be referring to (there were, after all, over 40 
>subcamps) - exactly what evidence you think points away from the use of gas 
>for homicide at Auschwitz.
>
>To give you a little head start, it's already clear that neither Rudolf or 
>Leuchter can help you with this, and that the "death books" don't include 
>those who were not selected for registration in the camps, and specifically 
>don't refer to those hundreds and hundreds of thousands who were killed more 
>or less immediately (those who arrived at the camps by transport, were not 
>selected for slave labour, were not registered as prisoners, and were never 
>seen again).
>
>So, let's see it.  What is this "evidence" that you think supports your 
>unfounded assertion?
>
>>
>>>>> In fact, even the otherwise scientifically worthless Leuchter "report",
>>>>> for all of its flaws, confirms that the the chambers were used pretty
>>>>> much
>>>>> as
>>>>> described.   Leuchter, however, didn't know what his findings meant, 
>>>>> any
>>>>> more than he knew how to construct a test, take samples, or how to have
>>>>> the samples evaluated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>> -pk
>>>>
>>>> I was talking about The Rudolf Report.
>>>
>>> Not a particularly smart move on your part, but that's hardly surprising
>>> given the foolishness you've posted.
>>>
>>> The Rudolph report contains a number of fabrications and speculation that
>>> he calls technical information,
>>
>> Specifics?
>
>See below.
>
>And do try learning to read.
>
>-pk
>
>>
>>> which also isn't suprising, coming as it
>>> does from a guy who writes under fake names so he can pretend to find
>>> SOMEONE who supports his crap.
>>>
>>> And let's not forget that Rudolf just isn't very bright.   You can't be
>>> smart and apply for a US green card at a US immigration office, a few
>>> weeks after being ordered deported from the US and a few blocks from the
>>> office that issued the deportation order.
>>>
>>> If this had been an IQ test, Rudolf's results would be somewhere below
>>> room temperature.
>>>
>>> Now, one blatant lie, or just one example of Rudolf's apalling lack of
>>> rigor or fact-checking is found quite early in the Rudolf report: "the
>>> only technical expert in the United States able to build and maintain 
>>> this
>>> equipment was Frederick A. Leuchter Jr., ".
>>>
>>> In reality, Leuchter isn't a technical expert, was unable to build any
>>> such
>>> equipment, built *no* gassing equipment for *any* US prisons.  He was
>>> eventually sold one lethal injection machine to one prison - but it had 
>>> to
>>> be modified *by competent technicians, not Leuchter* to work.
>>>
>>> What Leuchter was actually doing was running a shakedown scam.  He would
>>> present himself to prison officials as an expert, and say that if they
>>> didn't hire him, he would testify for the defence in capital punishment
>>> appeals.   Eventually, most states forbade any dealings with him.
>>>
>>> As to other inaccuracies in the "Rudolf Report", have a look here:
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/r/rudolf.germar/rudolf-report.001
>>>
>>> But maybe you wanted to pretend that you didn't know any of this.
>>>
>>> Now, in reality,  Germar Rudolph actually says that chemistry cannot be
>>> used to disprove the Holocaust.
>>>
>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/
>>> "Furthermore, I am convinced that chemistry is not the science which can
>>> prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust "rigorously".
>>>
>>> And so we see that even Rudolf doesn't buy the Rudolf Report, and
>>> certainly not your interpretation of it.
>>>
>>> Do try to learn something about the topic before you reply.
>>>
>>> -pk
>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2046260 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.am2.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why does Prussian Blue matter?
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:36:04 -0400, "Urban Moving Systems Inc."
 wrote:

>Patrick Keenan wrote:
>
>> 
>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>> news:tJqdnV1--4av4DjXnZ2dnUVZ_gti4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>>>> news:ccydna_kLbAx7zjXnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Urban Moving Systems Inc."  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:cpqdnZTfprVlbDnXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>>>> Urban Moving Systems Inc. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why does Prussian Blue matter?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It proves that there were not homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it does not.    There is a rather large amount of proof that there
>>>>>> were, in fact, homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such as baseless assertion in support of the claim.
>>>>
>>>> Well, if wanted to check, the baseless assertions are coming from *you*.
>>>>
>>>> If you bothered to check at all, you would find that there is a very
>>>> large
>>>> amount of evidence showing that there were homicidal gas chambers, from
>>>> testimony and business records from those who worked on the contracts
>>>> and supplied the materials, to testimony from the participants, to all
>>>> kinds of
>>>> records including transport records,  and chemical tests of the remains
>>>> of
>>>> the structures used as gas chambers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is much evidence revealing what happened at Auschwitz.  This is
>>> true.
>>> That evidence all points away from the existence of homicidal gas
>>> chambers.
>> 
>> No, it does not do that, as you'd know if you were remotely familiar with
>> the actual evidence rather than delusion and falsehood.
>> 
>
>I'm fairly familiar with delusion and falsehood.  You exhibit it 
>consistently.

Patrick would make the ideal "true believer" for outfits like the
Mormons, Scientologists, or Jehovah's Witnesses.

>
>> But for a laugh, perhaps you can tell us - assuming you even know which
>> camp at Auschwitz you pretend to be referring to (there were, after all,
>> over 40 subcamps) - exactly what evidence you think points away from the
>> use of gas for homicide at Auschwitz.
>
>Prussian blue would have formed on the walls of rooms used as alleged by the 
>accusers.  Prussian blue is exceptionally stable, and would therefore be 
>preserved in the ruins of the buildings had they actually been used as 
>alleged.
>
>> To give you a little head start, it's already clear that neither Rudolf or
>> Leuchter can help you with this, and that the "death books" don't include
>> those who were not selected for registration in the camps, and
>> specifically don't refer to those hundreds and hundreds of thousands who
>> were killed more or less immediately (those who arrived at the camps by
>> transport, were not selected for slave labour, were not registered as
>> prisoners, and were never seen again).
>> 
>> So, let's see it.  What is this "evidence" that you think supports your
>> unfounded assertion?
>> 
>>>
>>>>>> In fact, even the otherwise scientifically worthless Leuchter
>>>>>> "report", for all of its flaws, confirms that the the chambers were
>>>>>> used pretty much
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> described.   Leuchter, however, didn't know what his findings meant,
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> more than he knew how to construct a test, take samples, or how to
>>>>>> have the samples evaluated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>> I was talking about The Rudolf Report.
>>>>
>>>> Not a particularly smart move on your part, but that's hardly surprising
>>>> given the foolishness you've posted.
>>>>
>>>> The Rudolph report contains a number of fabrications and speculation
>>>> that he calls technical information,
>>>
>>> Specifics?
>> 
>> See below.
>> 
>> And do try learning to read.
>> 
>> -pk
>> 
>>>
>>>> which also isn't suprising, coming as it
>>>> does from a guy who writes under fake names so he can pretend to find
>>>> SOMEONE who supports his crap.
>>>>
>>>> And let's not forget that Rudolf just isn't very bright.   You can't be
>>>> smart and apply for a US green card at a US immigration office, a few
>>>> weeks after being ordered deported from the US and a few blocks from the
>>>> office that issued the deportation order.
>>>>
>>>> If this had been an IQ test, Rudolf's results would be somewhere below
>>>> room temperature.
>>>>
>>>> Now, one blatant lie, or just one example of Rudolf's apalling lack of
>>>> rigor or fact-checking is found quite early in the Rudolf report: "the
>>>> only technical expert in the United States able to build and maintain
>>>> this
>>>> equipment was Frederick A. Leuchter Jr., ".
>>>>
>>>> In reality, Leuchter isn't a technical expert, was unable to build any
>>>> such
>>>> equipment, built *no* gassing equipment for *any* US prisons.  He was
>>>> eventually sold one lethal injection machine to one prison - but it had
>>>> to
>>>> be modified *by competent technicians, not Leuchter* to work.
>>>>
>>>> What Leuchter was actually doing was running a shakedown scam.  He would
>>>> present himself to prison officials as an expert, and say that if they
>>>> didn't hire him, he would testify for the defence in capital punishment
>>>> appeals.   Eventually, most states forbade any dealings with him.
>>>>
>>>> As to other inaccuracies in the "Rudolf Report", have a look here:
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/r/rudolf.germar/rudolf-report.001
>>>>
>>>> But maybe you wanted to pretend that you didn't know any of this.
>>>>
>>>> Now, in reality,  Germar Rudolph actually says that chemistry cannot be
>>>> used to disprove the Holocaust.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/
>>>> "Furthermore, I am convinced that chemistry is not the science which can
>>>> prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust "rigorously".
>>>>
>>>> And so we see that even Rudolf doesn't buy the Rudolf Report, and
>>>> certainly not your interpretation of it.
>>>>
>>>> Do try to learn something about the topic before you reply.
>>>>
>>>> -pk
>> 
>>>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2046261 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Churchill's role in war
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:42:49 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>http://buchanan.org/blog/buchanan-churchill-spurred-the-decline-of-the-west-2104
>
>{
>Buchanan: Churchill Spurred the Decline of the West
>
>From Antiwar.com
>
>On September 3, 2009, a debate sponsored by Intelligence Squared, at
>the Methodist Central Hall Westminster, in London, considered the
>question: “Resolved: Churchill was more a liability than an asset to
>the free world.”
>
>Speakers for the motion: Pat Buchanan, Nigel Knight, political
>scientist and economist at Churchill College, Cambridge, and Norman
>Stone, historian and professor of International Relations at Bilkent
>University, Ankara.
>
>Speakers against the motion: Antony Beevor, historian and author of
>the best-selling book Stalingrad; professor Richard Overy, historian,
>author of many books and articles on the Second World War and the Nazi
>regime; and Andrew Roberts, historian, who has spent 20 years writing,
>researching, and broadcasting about Churchill and the Second World
>War.
>
>We publish below Pat Buchanan’s opening statement:
>
>To borrow from Mark Antony’s funeral oration, we of the affirmative
>are not here to praise Mr. Churchill — but to bury him.
>
>But, first, let us concede the greatness of the man.
>
>In that finest hour of the British nation, 1940, Winston Churchill was
>indomitable, an inspiration to men everywhere.  He was the Lion who
>gave Britain’s roar of defiance in the face of Hitler’s Germany.  For
>that, he will be honored by peoples everywhere — and forever.
>
>And if we judged him on that year alone, there would be no debate.
>There would be unanimity.
>
>But Churchill’s career did not last a single year.  It lasted half a
>century.  And, over that half century, no other career of a Western
>statesman was more calamitous for his country and his civilization
>than that of Winston Spencer Churchill.
>
>More than any other British leader, in 1914 and 1939, Churchill lusted
>for war and pushed his country to turn two European wars into world
>wars, so Germany might be destroyed.
>
>Both times, he succeeded.

He did not succeed in destroying Germany, but he certainly removed
Great Britain from its status as a world power.

>
>And history records that those wars, that together took the lives of
>perhaps a hundred million Europeans, were the mortal blows that
>advanced the death of the West.
>
>And it was Winston Churchill who led the West in its advance to
>barbarism.
>
>As First Lord he instituted a starvation blockade that violated all
>the rules of civilized warfare and brought death to 100 times as many
>German civilians as there were Belgian victims of the Kaiser’s army.
>
>Churchill’s purpose: it is, he said “to starve the whole population,
>men, women and children, old and young, wounded and sound, into
>submission.”
>
>Four months after Germany laid down her arms, the starvation blockade
>remained in force.  And Churchill rose in Parliament to exult: “We are
>enforcing the blockade with rigour and Germany is near starvation.”
>
>In 1920, as Secretary for War and Air, Churchill, enraged by Iraqi
>resistance to British colonial rule, declaimed, “I am strongly in
>favor of using poison gas against uncivilized tribes to spread a
>lively terror.”
>
>Eighty years later, Saddam Hussein and Chemical Ali would be hanged in
>Baghdad for doing what Churchill urged Britain to do and what Britain
>did.
>
>The day he became Prime Minister in 1940, as the German army was
>breaking through in the Ardennes, Churchill directed his bombers not
>against Rommel’s Panzers, but Rhineland cities, in what your historian
>Paul Johnson calls “a critical stage in the moral declension of
>humanity in our times.”
>
>Coventry and the Blitz were war crimes.
>
>But they were also reprisal raids for the terror bombing begun by
>Churchill.  The climax came in 1945 with Thunderclap, the fire-bombing
>of Dresden, the Florence on the Elbe, a defenseless city of a defeated
>nation packed with refugees fleeing the serial rapists of the Red
>Army.  Estimates of the dead range from 35,000 to 250,000.
>
>But he was a great war strategist, we are told.
>
>But the greatest British debacle of World War I was Gallipoli, an ill-
>conceived drive to force the Dardanelles that cost a quarter of a
>million British, French and Anzac dead and wounded.  Architect of the
>disaster: First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill.
>
>The greatest British debacle of World War II was Norway, when the
>invading Royal Marines arrived 24 hours after German troops had landed
>and occupied all the major Norwegian ports from Oslo to Narvik.
>Architect of the disaster: First Lord of the Admiralty Winston
>Churchill.
>
>One British historian suggests the Norway operation was blown by
>Churchill himself, blabbing his plans to neutral press attaches, where
>German intelligence picked them up.  That historian?  Andrew Roberts.
>
>What of Churchill the statesman?
>
>In 1921, the Americans demanded that Britain come to a Washington
>Naval Conference, agree to scrap hundreds of warships, and sever a 20-
>year alliance with a Japan that had been faithful throughout World War
>I.  Churchill urged capitulation to the Americans, and Britain
>capitulated, terminated the Japanese treaty, and began dismantling the
>greatest navy in the world.
>
>British historian Correlli Barnett calls that capitulation to American
>demands, at Churchill’s insistence, “one of the major catastrophes of
>English history.”
>
>Five years later, Chancellor of the Exchequer Churchill said, do not
>worry: “War with Japan is not a possibility which any reasonable
>government need take into account.”  In 1942, Singapore fell, and the
>empire was finished in Asia.
>
>When Hitler marched into the Rhineland in 1936, Churchill hailed the
>French for taking the matter to the League of Nations.. But the ideal
>solution, he wrote, would be for Hitler to do the “noble” thing, and
>march back out of the Rhineland.
>
>Apparently, Hitler did not read the column.
>
>In 1939, he Churchill pushed his country to go to war for Poland.
>Britain did.  Was Poland saved?  Instead of losing Danzig, the Poles
>lost half their country, six million dead, and fifty years of freedom.
>
>Churchill excoriated Chamberlain for appeasing Hitler.  But
>Churchill’s four years of appeasement of  Stalin make Neville
>Chamberlain at Munich look like Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
>
>At Moscow, Teheran, Yalta, Churchill told Stalin he could keep all the
>fruits of his devil’s pact with Hitler including the three Baltic
>republics.  He acceded to Moscow’s domination of Eastern and Central
>Europe in violation of his solemn pledge in the Atlantic Charter.
>
>When he came back from Yalta in 1945, Churchill told Parliament, “I
>know of no Government which stands to its obligations more solidly
>than the Russian Soviet Government.”
>
>Churchill then gave his benediction to the most barbaric act of ethnic
>cleansing in history: the forced expulsion of 13 million German old
>men, women and children from their ancestral homes.  Two million died
>in the exodus.
>
>At war’s end, Germany was a smoldering ruin but all the great capitals
>of Central and Eastern Europe — Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Prague,
>Vienna – were occupied by Stalin’s Red Army.  Britain was bankrupt and
>broken.  The empire was collapsing.  And the Americans were going
>home.
>
>But there was this consolation: Haile Selassie was back on his throne
>in Addis Ababa.
>
>When Churchill entered the inner Cabinet as First Lord in 1911,
>Britain was first nation on earth and ruler of the greatest empire
>since Rome.  When he left in 1945, Britain was an island dependency of
>the United States.  He was a Great Man — at the cost of his country’s
>greatness.
>
>SOURCE: Antiwar.com
>}


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2046262 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Quick Joke
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:47:53 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tuc0a5ha5d079b4ft319md7cfo4e645v82@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:06:05 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Non scrivetemi"  wrote in 
>>>message
>>>news:9a83b0ab377f1fc2f32ae86b6cc85b53@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...
>>>
>>>> (They never found any ashes from the six million dead. At any "death"
>>>> camp.)
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, they did, but you aren't interested in the truth, are you?
>>
>> There isn't very much hard evidence for the holocaust story,
>
>Your denial doesn't make the evidence go away.

The judge at the libel trial in Britain for Irving/Lipstadt made the
same observation. Most of the "evidence" for the holocaust comes in
the form of paper from the political show-trial now known as
Nuremberg.

>
>
>> which is
>> exactly why the mcvay bunch keep dredging up paper from the post-WW2
>> show trials at Nuremberg.
>>
>> The "proof" for the story consists almost exclusively of paper in the
>> form of "testimonies" or "confessions" (generally beaten out of
>> people).
>>
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2046434 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 11:35 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 4, 5:33 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > On Sep 4, 3:56 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > That's because Japan was willing to fight a war using troops.  You
>> >> > > coward shite burned civilians by the hundres of thousands.
>>
>> >> > You've gotta be a real retard to suggest that US soldiers in the
>> >> > Pacific were cowardly.
>>
>> >> > You'd wet yourself if you had to face the fighting our guys faced on
>> >> > Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
>>
>> >> The only way youse won the war was to nuke civilians.  that's real
>> >> brave man it really is.
>>
>> >I see you flunked history.  We took Japanese soldiers head on all
>> >across the Pacific and defeated them.
>>
>> >And the nukes were dropped on military targets.
>>
>> Bullshit
>
>Nope.  That's all straightforward history.

American propaganda is not history. Our history books have this event
as a war crime of the first magnitude. Americans are just gullible and
ignorant, with you being a prime example of buffoonery.




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2046435 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:57:45 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:51:36 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 4:06 pm, George  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 7, 3:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> >> > According to George, Nazis are people who are opposed to the murder of
>> >> > small children, so perhaps Nazis are not that bad and it is George who
>> >> > is evil.
>>
>> >> Your strawman fails.
>>
>> >> There are a few criminal groups throughout the world who are nazis and
>> >> who follow the insanity that set the world afire 70 years ago.
>>
>> >> Nazis nil
>> >> The World Won
>>
>> >Um George, The natSocs did not set the world on fire.  The allies
>> >tried and succeeded in setting cities on fire.  Who declared war on
>> >whom?  The invasion of Poland was not 'setting the world on fire'.
>>
>> The Polish campaign was over and done with in 18 days. Poland, a
>> fascist state just like Germany, was invaded by Germany (for valid
>> reasons) and the USSR (for reasons of greed and world domination
>> ambitions) but the stupid Brits only made an issue of the German
>> involvement.
>
>For valid reasons???

Versailles Poland, an artificial creation of the allies, was in
possession of stolen German territory to which they had no
entitlement, along with about two million of the German residents.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2046436 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:41:22 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 4:48 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 3:20 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
>> > > against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
>> > > facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
>> > > Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
>> > > declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
>> > > Anglo-American terrorist bombing.
>>
>> > Nope.  It was the Axis who targeted civilians, not the Allies.
>>
>> So Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, Hamburg, Hanover, them was
>> flying mistakes?  Navigator problems?  Oooops.  There goes another
>> 100K innocents into the fire.
>
>Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, and Hamburg were all military
>targets.

Almost every statement coming out of the States is horseshit, and has
been since 1776.

>
>I'm unfamiliar with the bombing of Hanover.

Well, the city has a population over 5, so it probably meets your
criterion for a "military target". I hope that not all Americans are
this stupid and clueless.

>
>
>
>
>> Hey HF, you kind of stupid?
>
>Nope.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2046437 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> rOn Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:17:15 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:51:33 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> >On Sep 1, 6:35 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >> >> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> There is nobody so evil as somebody who supports American war crimes
>> >> >> >> in Japan.
>>
>> >> >> >The A-bombs struck military targets
>>
>> >> >> That is utter crap and even you cannot be so stupid as to not realize
>> >> >> that a nuclear bomb is an attack on an entire city, by definition a
>> >> >> war crime, and not an attack on a "military target".
>>
>> >> >Nope.  Hiroshima was a major military center filled with tens of
>> >> >thousands of Japanese troops.
>>
>> >> You could say the same thing about virtually any city in the totally
>> >> militaristic USA, but the presence of a few soldiers does not justify
>> >> somebody taking out New York City.
>>
>> >Hiroshima had a lot more than a few soldiers.  It was a huge military
>> >center.
>>
>> >And no, not every city in the USA is a major military center.
>>
>> >> >> Your simple-minded reasoning would be the same as justifying the mass
>> >> >> murder of the five million residents of Manhattan in order to take out
>> >> >> a small factory that makes swimming goggles that could conceivably be
>> >> >> used by military divers somewhere.
>>
>> >> >The huge numbers of soldiers in Hiroshima, and the huge weapons
>> >> >industry of Nagasaki, are hardly comparable to a swimming goggle
>> >> >factory.
>>
>> >> That is all irrelevant. Had the murderous Americans attacked the
>> >> actual industrial areas or miltary areas, there would be little
>> >> complaint, but they didn't.
>>
>> >Nope.  We attacked right were the soldiers and factories were.
>>
>> You took out two large cities in the greatest war crime of all time,
>> and which will stain the USA forever, or at least until its demise as
>> a world power which seems to be happening as we speak.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> Your arguments are preposterous and amount to hate speech.
>>
>> >> >Nope.  My arguments are factual and amount to a straightforward
>> >> >recitation of the historical record.
>>
>> >> Your posts are straighforward recitations of American propaganda, but
>> >> hardly of the historical record.
>>
>> >Nope.  What I said is completely in line with the historical record.
>>
>> >> >> > and Japan was steadfastly refusing
>> >> >> > to surrender until after both A-bombs were dropped.
>>
>> >> >> This is more horseshit
>>
>> >> >Nope.  Japan sent no surrender offers until after both A-bombs were
>> >> >dropped.
>>
>> >> That is historically false.
>>
>> >Nope.
>>
>> >August 6: Hiroshima
>>
>> >August 9: Nagasaki
>>
>> >August 10: Japan's first offer to surrender
>>
>> >August 14: Japan's first offer to surrender on acceptable terms
>>
>> >August 17: Third A-bomb would have been dropped on Tokyo had Japan not
>> >surrendered
>>
>> They didn't and wouldn't do that because rearranging ashes isn't that
>> spectacular.
>
>They were going to do it.  After Nagasaki a number of prominent
>military leaders (Nimitz, LeMay, Spaatz, Twining) pushed to have Tokyo
>be the next target because it would create a greater shock value on
>the Japanese government, and the leadership back in Washington was
>leaning strongly towards following their advice when Japan suddenly
>surrendered..
>
>It would not necessarily have been "rearranging ashes".  While the
>core of Tokyo had been burnt, it was a big place even back then, and
>there was plenty of built up area around the core that remained
>standing.
>
>However, it may well have been "rearranging ashes".  The people
>pushing to nuke Tokyo were doing so because they thought giving
>Hirohito an opportunity to look at a bright flash and mushroom cloud
>firsthand would provide another shock towards surrender.  They did not
>share your assessment that such a bombing would not have been
>spectacular, and their goals would have been satisfied by dropping the
>bomb over an area that had already been burnt out.
>
>
>
>> In any case it shows the American mindset that the ticket
>> to victory is an ever increasing orgy of civilian atrocities.
>
>Dropping a bomb on a military target is hardly an atrocity.

LOL

By your simple-minded reasoning, any human settlement would count as a
military target, from Podunk Junction, population 5, on up.

You're a fucking idiot and one of the reasons that people around the
world detest Americans and their pompous sense of self-importance.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2046438 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >> The Anglo-American bombing attacks were directed at people, not
>> >> against military or industrial facilities. The military and industrial
>> >> facilities were largely intact, right up to the end of the war.
>> >> Production rose continuously, reaching its peak in January of 1945 and
>> >> declining after that due to fuel shortages, not because of the
>> >> Anglo-American terrorist bombing.
>>
>> >Nope.  It was the Axis who targeted civilians, not the Allies.
>>
>> You are wrong. The Axis powers didn't even own a fleet of holocaust
>> bombers like Britain or the USA. The British holocaust fleet was
>> started in 1922, years before Hitler or the Nazis were anywhere near
>> power. Obviously, civilian atrocities featured in British plans from
>> just after WW1.
>
>Mischaracterizing bombers as being related to the Nazi Holocaust is
>absurd and offensive.

The only purpose of the strategic bomber fleet was to create civilian
casualties, so it is rightly called a holocaust fleet. Jews have no
registered trademark on the word holocaust. 

>
>And Germany most certainly had a fleet of bombers.

They had small aircraft intended for ground support and no strategic
bomber fleet since such things would have been considered
dishonourable and cowardly.

>
>And American bombers did not target civilians.

When did they change?

>
>I'm sure UK bombers did not target civilians either.

When you drop incendiaries that are not going to damage heavy
industrial buildings but are intended to set fire to private homes,
then one can safely assume that the residents of those private homes
were the target, oh simple-minded American dud.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2046439 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:07:38 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >Napalm airstrikes allowed our guys to burn away the Iraqi guards
>> >without damaging the bridges and without risking casualties.
>>
>> I'm starting to understand the motivation of the people who created
>> 9/11.
>
>In short, they hate our freedom.

LOL

What freedom is that. The USA has never been about freedom in the
general sense, but about the freedom of the wealthy to exploit.

>
>
>
>> People such as "Hiroshima Facts" are disgusting beyond words,
>
>Hardly.  All I do is point out reality.

You wouldn't recognize reality since your head is full of American
shit.

>
>
>
>> but he really shows the cowardly American soldier for the pieces of
>> human garbage that they are.
>
>American soldiers are hardly cowards, and are better people than
>you'll ever be.

American soldiers have always been cowardly louts in every area they
have ever appeared.

>
>How about the Germans start pulling their weight in NATO.

Why?

>  It's time
>they sent a sizable body of troops to help pacify Afghanistan

Germany has no national interests in Afghanistan, and it simply isn't
worth a single drop of German blood, merely to achieve an American oil
pipeline through Afghanistan, which is what this is really about.

> instead
>of leaving it to the US, UK, Canada, and Eastern Europe to do all the
>work.

The USA should fight its own colonial wars. The 129 Canadians who have
died there acting as lackeys for the Americans have died for nothing.
The stupid Americans have not yet realized that the Afghan war is
lost. Our current Tory government is a collection of pro-American
arse-kissers who need to be removed from government at the earliest
opportunity.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2046440 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:18:48 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 4, 10:39 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> >> On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> > > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> >> > > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> >> > > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> >> > > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> >> > > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> >> > > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> >> > > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> >> > > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >> >> > > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> >> > You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> >> >> Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> >> >> that are not targeted.
>>
>> >> >> The Allies targeted things like war industry and enemy soldiers.  It
>> >> >> was the Axis that targeted civilians.
>>
>> >> >> > But as
>> >> >> > I've said before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and an
>> >> >> > onion is still an onion.  Garlic is part of the lily family.
>> >> >> > But it's still garlic.
>> >> >> > White phosphurus is still an ugly ANTI-PERSONEL weapon
>>
>> >> >> Actually WP is a smoke device for obscuring movement on the
>> >> >> battlefield.
>>
>> >> >> > and so is
>> >> >> > napalm.  Ask the meltees in Tokyo how they liked their bombing.
>>
>> >> >> Napalm is a perfectly legal weapon.
>>
>> >> >> The target at Tokyo was all the war industry in the city.
>>
>> >> >Bull roar you moronic flying pig.  You gotta take a risk in war if you
>> >> >wanna blow shit up honourably.  If you wanna axe like aminals and be a
>> >> >Yankee then go for it like a coward.
>>
>> >> The attack on Tokyo, and most other Japanese cities, was pure
>> >> terrorism carried out with a load of more than 99% incendiaries, bombs
>> >> that would do little or no damage to heavy factory buildings, but
>> >> would cause the wooden houses of the Japanese lower classes go up in
>> >> flames.
>>
>> >> Were you to do a Tokyo-style attack against Queens, the borough of New
>> >> York, most of it would burn down leaving its multi-million population
>> >> homeless, but the industrial areas would remain standing and
>> >> functional since those structures are not that vulnerable to
>> >> incendiaries.
>>
>> >> All that "Hiroshima Facts" has to say about anything can be pretty
>> >> much summed up as nonsense.
>>
>> >I note the fact that the Tokyo bombing successfully destroyed industry
>> >in the targeted area.....
>>
>> Even if that were true, and I seriously doubt it based on what I've
>> read over the years about the American bombing campaign in Japan, it
>> still wouldn't justify the American terrorist bombing.
>
>No, destroying war industry is a valid reason for bombing a military
>target.

You're full of shit, especially since the so-called "war industry" was
still standing, and was stolen during the period 1945 - 1949. This is
just more empty American rhetoric.

>
>And bombing a military target is hardly terrorism.

Bombing is itself a war crime, regardless of the target, unless there
is an army on the ground in a position to capture the site. Bombing is
by nature indiscriminate savagery, which is why American savages
always like to use it.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2046441 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:13:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:22:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> >> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> >> >> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> >> >> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> >> >> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> >> >> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> >> >> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> >> >> > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> >> >> > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> >> >> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> >> >> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> >> >Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> >> >that are not targeted.
>>
>> >> So, "Hiroshima Facts", the people who arranged 9/11 would have been
>> >> perfectly justified, according to your logic, if they had named a
>> >> single person as the target of the attack, then the other 2,999
>> >> victims could have been dismissed as "collateral damage". The Israelis
>> >> use that same sort of sophistry in their justifications for outrages
>> >> in the West Bank and Gaza.
>>
>> >The World Trade Center did not contain any legitimate targets.
>>
>> Dresden countained no legitimate targets either, but that didn't deter
>> the Anglo-American holocaust fleet.
>
>The railyards were certainly a legitimate target.

Virtually every town, even quite small ones, has a railway station, so
by your simple-minded American reasoning, all human settlements are
"military" targets. Americans are just terrorists, much like they
accuse outfits such as al-Qa'ida of being, except that they have
rather more resources to support their terrorism than does al-Qa'ida.

>
>
>
>> >And al-Qa'ida admits that they target civilians.
>>
>> Most of that sort of thing is the work of Israelis, who use American
>> atrocities as their model, since the USA is their murderous patron.
>
>No, it's the work of Muslim extremists.
>
>
>
>> >It is hardly an outrage for Israelis to defend themselves from those
>> >evil Palestinians.
>>
>> The Palestinians are simply defending their ancestral home from
>> merciless European invaders.
>
>That isn't the Palestinians' ancestral home.  It is the Israelis'
>ancestral home.
>
>
>
>> Israel is a terrorist state founded by
>> terrorists and maintained by terrorists.
>
>Nope.  Unlike the Palestinians, the Israelis do not engage in
>terrorism.
>
>
>
>> Religious myths are not a
>> solid foundation for territorial claims, especially thousands of years
>> later.
>
>History is hardly a religious myth.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2046442 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
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On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 04:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 8, 1:13 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:22:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >  wrote:
>> > >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > >wrote:
>> > >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> > >>  wrote:
>> > >> >On Sep 3, 8:56 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > >> >wrote:
>> > >> >> On Sep 2, 8:10 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > >> >> > On Sep 2, 7:14 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > >> >> > wrote:
>> > >> >> > > On Sep 2, 7:50 am, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > > > This is also nonsence. The allies or the Axis did not bomb cities based on
>> > >> >> > > > the demographics of working class and upper class areas. They did not
>> > >> >> > > > specifically target children like the Nazis specifically targeted Children!
>>
>> > >> >> > > Of course the allies targeted children; not specifically, but they knew
>> > >> >> > > (according to the law of probability)that children would be burned,
>> > >> >> > > killed, maimed, melted into the pavement, etc.
>>
>> > >> >> > That is incorrect.  The allies did not target civilians.
>>
>> > >> >> > What you are referring to is collateral damage.  That is anything but
>> > >> >> > targeting civilians.
>>
>> > >> >> You can call the targeting of 'collateral damage' if you like.
>>
>> > >> >Collateral damage is not targeted.  Collateral damage refers to things
>> > >> >that are not targeted.
>>
>> > >> So, "Hiroshima Facts", the people who arranged 9/11 would have been
>> > >> perfectly justified, according to your logic, if they had named a
>> > >> single person as the target of the attack, then the other 2,999
>> > >> victims could have been dismissed as "collateral damage". The Israelis
>> > >> use that same sort of sophistry in their justifications for outrages
>> > >> in the West Bank and Gaza.
>>
>> > >The World Trade Center did not contain any legitimate targets.
>>
>> > Dresden countained no legitimate targets either, but that didn't deter
>> > the Anglo-American holocaust fleet.
>>
>> The railyards were certainly a legitimate target.
>>
>> > >And al-Qa'ida admits that they target civilians.
>>
>> > Most of that sort of thing is the work of Israelis, who use American
>> > atrocities as their model, since the USA is their murderous patron.
>>
>> No, it's the work of Muslim extremists.
>>
>> > >It is hardly an outrage for Israelis to defend themselves from those
>> > >evil Palestinians.
>>
>> > The Palestinians are simply defending their ancestral home from
>> > merciless European invaders.
>>
>> That isn't the Palestinians' ancestral home.  It is the Israelis'
>> ancestral home.
>>
>> > Israel is a terrorist state founded by
>> > terrorists and maintained by terrorists.
>>
>> Nope.  Unlike the Palestinians, the Israelis do not engage in
>> terrorism.
>>
>> > Religious myths are not a
>> > solid foundation for territorial claims, especially thousands of years
>> > later.
>>
>> History is hardly a religious myth.
>
>History has been shaped by religious mythology.

Poor ignorant HF seems to think that Judaism is "history". LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2046443 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've never heard a denier or a revisionist justify the murder of  children
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:09:49 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 5, 7:49 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 5, 6:32 pm, "Mavisbeacon"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > No it didn't! Unjustified as it was there were maybe dozens of civilians at
>> >> > most killed in Falluja. It was not an attempt to exterminate all the
>> >> > population. The highest estimates of deaths caused BY WAR (and that is all
>> >> > deaths and not genocide) is between 300,000 and one million. The genocide
>> >> > total is zero so far.
>>
>> >> Are you trying to justify a few hundred thousand murders as
>> >> inconsequential?
>>
>> >Aside from the reality that collateral damage is hardly murder, there
>> >is also the reality that the collateral damage was no more than a
>> >tenth that figure.
>>
>> >> You are full of it as usual. The Americans invaded a sovereign
>> >> country.  They invaded and murdered civlians in Falluja.
>>
>> >We committed no murders at Fallujah.
>>
>> You behaved the same way that you accuse Nazis of behaving, so if
>> those were murders, so are yours.
>
>No, we did nothing like the Nazi Holocaust.

Anything the Nazis did, you did also, and generally on a much bigger
scale. Mostly, the only difference is methodology, not intent.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2046444 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:14:43 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 4:41 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 2:35 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > >On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> > > >> In article ,
>> > > >> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> > > >> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> > > >> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> > > >> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> > > >> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> > > >> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> > > >> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> > > >> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> > > >> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> > > >> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> > > >> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> > > >> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> > > >> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> > > >> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> > > >> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> > > >> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> > > >> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> > > >> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> > > >> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> > > >> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>> > > >The belted jerk of Nanimo justifies the murder of civilians.  So why
>> > > >the WP asshole?
>> > > >Why the anti-pregnant-women firestorm you moronic murderer?  You so
>> > > >brave like a crazy asshole.
>> > > >
>>
>> > > Poor mcvay is blinded by racist hatred. Clearly Dresden was a very low
>> > > priority target that became important not because of anything it
>> > > contained, but because it had never been bombed before.
>>
>> > The railyards were a legitimate target.
>>
>> > > The same thing
>> > > was true of Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Both were militarily
>> > > insignificant,
>>
>> > Wrong again.  Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of
>> > thousands of soldiers.
>>
>> The non-shitty method of fighting those soldiers is to fight those
>> soldiers.  Not murder babies from the air.
>
>Airstrikes are a legitimate way to kill enemy soldiers, and collateral
>damage is not murder.

Air strikes are terrorism and murder, the technique of cowards,
because they can main and kill at a distance without getting too
dirty.

Americans are scum.

TV pictures showing American scum coming back to the USA in metal
coffins has always been a heart-warming experience for me.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2046445 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:52:25 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> >> >> What military targets. What military targets were in Pforzheim and Dresden.
>>
>> >> >US bombers at Dresden were trying to hit the railyards.
>>
>> >> That is utter nonsense. The Anglo-American bombing fleet was trying
>> >> out the fire-raising techniques they had learned in other German
>> >> cities and trying it out on a virgin target, since Dresden had never
>> >> been bombed previously. The attack was against the medieval city core,
>> >> not against the railway yards.
>>
>> >Having trouble telling the US from the UK?
>>
>> >It was the UK that started the firestorm in the medieval city core.
>> >US bombers had nothing to do with it.
>>
>> It was a coordinated mass murder campaign there as in countless other
>> places in Germany. American precision bombing is a myth. Americans,
>> like their British counterparts, were into wide area bombing in a big
>> way. German cities are almost impossible to set on fire, and even more
>> difficult to blow up, but with a carefully coordinated attack they can
>> be set on fire, at least the old medieval ones. The Anglo-American
>> mass-murder campaign had no success in Berlin, which is too modern a
>> city with streets that are far too wide to allow a fire-storm to take
>> hold.
>
>It was certainly a coordinated attack, but the targets of the bombers
>were not the same.

Get off the pot. There is the example of American behaviour in Japan,
and the techniques used there were learned in their terrorist attacks
against the residential areas of large German cities.

>
>American bombers tried to hit the railyards while UK bombers tried to
>start a firestorm in the heart of the city.
>
>
>
>> By contrast, setting Japanese cities on fire is relatively easy, since
>> the Japanese use mainly wood in the construction of private homes,
>> just like Americans. American cities would go up in flames just with
>> the use of incendiaries. There would be absolutely no need for
>> high-explosive bombs to soften up the target before the use of the
>> incendiaries.
>>
>> For the murderous American savages, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden
>> were ideal for their genocidal purposes because the one thing all
>> three cities had in common was that they were all initially undamaged,
>> that is "virgin targets".
>
>Hardly genocide.  That would require an intent to extinguish a race or
>a culture.
>
>And America is not responsible for the UK's firestorm in Dresden.
>
>
>
>> Most of the damage in all three places was
>> done by the fire-storm following the actual attack, with the main
>> difference being that Dresden required almost 1,000 aircraft to set
>> the city on fire, whereas in Japan two small nuclear bombs were able
>> to set the fire-storm more or less instantly. Modern concrete and
>> brick buildings survived right up to ground zero in both places.
>
>I think Nagasaki had a conflagration instead of a firestorm.
>
>Blast from the A-bombs was considerable.  While the concrete shells of
>a few buildings survived near the center of the blast, the buildings
>did not survive in any functional sense.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2046446 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:27:29 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:24:52 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 4, 11:47 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sep 4, 5:22 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > On Sep 4, 3:34 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > On Sep 4, 11:25 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> > > > On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >> > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> >> > > > > > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> >> > > > > > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> >> > > > > > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> >> > > > > > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> >> > > > > > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> >> > > > > > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> >> > > > > > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> >> > > > > > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> >> > > > > > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> >> > > > > > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> >> > > > > The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> >> > > > > with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> >> > > > Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> >> > > > And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>> >> > > > of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.
>>
>> >> > > Liar.
>>
>> >> > Nope.  All I did was point out historical reality.
>>
>> >> > > I guess you are so stupid as to believe that your bullshit
>> >> > > tales will be believed by the intelligent among us.
>>
>> >> > Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.
>>
>> >> Since your IQ is around -9, a third of that would be -27.  That suks.
>>
>> >LOL!  You Nazis sure get childish.
>>
>> Here we go again with the meaningless use of "Nazi". You're starting
>> to sound like a sock-puppet of George.
>
>Hardly meaningless.  He's a Holocaust denier, and therefore a Nazi.

Now George is a Nazi, is he?  LOL

I'm sure that he'll be delighted to hear that.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2046447 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:30:51 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 8, 1:27 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:24:52 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >  wrote:
>> > >On Sep 4, 11:47 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > >wrote:
>> > >> On Sep 4, 5:22 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > >> > On Sep 4, 3:34 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >> > > On Sep 4, 11:25 am, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> > >> > > > On Sep 3, 10:37 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > >> > > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > On Sep 3, 10:00 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>> > >> > > > > > Archive: places/poland/kiev babi-yar.01
>> > >> > > > > > Last-modified: 22 Feb 93. knm.
>> > >> > > > > > XRef: einsatzgruppen/babi-yar.02 einsatzgruppen/blobel.01
>>
>> > >> > > > > > "Kiev ... contained a Jewish population of 175,000 on the eve of the Nazi
>> > >> > > > > > invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Nazi forces captured the city in
>> > >> > > > > > mid-September; within less than a fortnight, on the 29th. and 30th., nearly
>> > >> > > > > > 34,000 Jews of the ghetto were brought to a suburban ravine known as Babi
>> > >> > > > > > Yar, near the Jewish Cemetary, where men, women, and children were
>> > >> > > > > > systematically machine-gunned in a two-day orgy of execution. In subsequent
>> > >> > > > > > months, most of the remaining population was exterminated.
>>
>> > >> > > > > > This, the most appalling massacre of the war,
>>
>> > >> > > > > The most appalling massacres of the war were the German cities along
>> > >> > > > > with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo.
>>
>> > >> > > > Those were hardly massacres, as they were attacks on military targets.
>>
>> > >> > > > And they didn't kill nearly as many civilians as the tens of millions
>> > >> > > > of civilians intentionally murdered by the Axis.
>>
>> > >> > > Liar.
>>
>> > >> > Nope.  All I did was point out historical reality.
>>
>> > >> > > I guess you are so stupid as to believe that your bullshit
>> > >> > > tales will be believed by the intelligent among us.
>>
>> > >> > Your IQ isn't even a third of mine.
>>
>> > >> Since your IQ is around -9, a third of that would be -27.  That suks.
>>
>> > >LOL!  You Nazis sure get childish.
>>
>> > Here we go again with the meaningless use of "Nazi". You're starting
>> > to sound like a sock-puppet of George.
>>
>> Hardly meaningless.  He's a Holocaust denier, and therefore a Nazi.
>
>You're a holocaust denier.  The firebombing of Tokyo was a holocaust.
>Therefore, you must be a 'nazi'(by your own definition).

There isn't that much difference in outlook between a German
right-winger and an American right-winger like HF.

I think that I've now wasted more than enough time trying to have an
meaningful exchange of positions with HF, so I'm going to put him on a
filter so that his stuff no longer clutters my screen. I figure that
I'm fairly patient, but there is a limit.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2046448 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:41:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 2:35 pm, Hiroshima Facts  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> > >On Sep 4, 4:24 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> >> > >> In article ,
>> >> > >> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> >> > >> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> >> > >> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> >> > >> Tutu with the "der alte Trottel" merit badge and  wrote:
>>
>> >> > >> >You rally believe in you own Bullshit. What rail yards, The destruction of
>> >> > >> >the rails system in Germany was to disrupt all kind if traffic. The
>> >> > >> >commander of Dachau was accused of starving the prisoners. When in fact it
>> >> > >> >was the Americans who made sure no food supply gets into the camp. While
>> >> > >> >visiting our relatives some 80 kilometres away it took us 2 full days
>> >> > >> >because the rail was bombed out.
>>
>> >> > >> 8. As a primary communications center, Dresden was the junction of
>> >> > >> three great trunk routes in the German railway system: (1)
>> >> > >> Berlin-Prague-Vienna, (2) Munich-Breslau, and (3)
>> >> > >> Hamburg-Leipzig. As a key center in the dense Berlin-Leipzig
>> >> > >> railway complex, Dresden was connected to both cities by two main
>> >> > >> lines.6 The density, volume, and importance of the Dresden-Saxony
>> >> > >> railway system within the German geography and e economy is seen
>> >> > >> in the facts that in 1939 Saxony was seventh in area among the
>> >> > >> major German states, ranked seventh in its railway mileage, but
>> >> > >> ranked third in the total tonnage carried by rail.7
>>
>> >> > >The belted jerk of Nanimo justifies the murder of civilians.  So why
>> >> > >the WP asshole?
>> >> > >Why the anti-pregnant-women firestorm you moronic murderer?  You so
>> >> > >brave like a crazy asshole.
>> >> > >
>>
>> >> > Poor mcvay is blinded by racist hatred. Clearly Dresden was a very low
>> >> > priority target that became important not because of anything it
>> >> > contained, but because it had never been bombed before.
>>
>> >> The railyards were a legitimate target.
>>
>> >> > The same thing
>> >> > was true of Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Both were militarily
>> >> > insignificant,
>>
>> >> Wrong again.  Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of
>> >> thousands of soldiers.
>>
>> >The non-shitty method of fighting those soldiers is to fight those
>> >soldiers.  Not murder babies from the air.
>>
>> Murdering babies is an American tradition that we keep seeing over and
>> over and over again, with the most recent examples being Afghanistan
>> and Iraq.
>
>Nope.  America does not murder anyone, babies or otherwise.

The USA is the most evil political entity in human history. Everything
about the USA is violent, criminal, and murderous.

>
>That was a frequent hobby of the Axis however.

That is only according to American propaganda lore.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2046449 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:49:37 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Sep 6, 7:02 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:28:02 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 6, 11:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:20:39 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Sep 4, 3:25 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> What rail yards,
>>
>> >> >The ones in the middle of the city.
>>
>> >> LOL
>>
>> >> The poor American smuck has obviously no clue as to the geography of
>> >> Dresden.
>>
>> >That was an interesting gamble for you to take, but unfortunately for
>> >you I've seen maps showing where the railyards were.
>>
>> I've been there in person, so I know better.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> This wasn't some cow-town in Kansas on flat terrain. There
>> >> was a passenger railway station downtown as in all other German
>> >> cities, but the railway marshalling yard you claim was the target was
>> >> in the suburbs
>>
>> >Nope.  The railyards were near the center of the city.
>>
>> There is no "centre". The city is built along the banks of the Elbe in
>> the valley of the Elbe.
>
>A map of the position of the railyards in relation to the city is on
>this page:
>
>http://www.learningcurve.gov.uk/heroesvillains/g1/cs1/g1cs1s2bnf.htm

That is more of your empty sophistry. Can you even tell the difference
between a marshalling yard and a passenger railway terminal?

The Reichsbahn facilities were not badly damaged, so all that was your
usual American excuse for their terrorist attacks.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2046450 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The cremation capacity in Auschwitz. CREMATION AT NAZI CAMPS: why , how , where & REAL NUMBERS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:55:41 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:v9ica5hem9ik0ijt6h9elagdq93mer351k@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:53:42 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> You still haven't said anything, and self-serving Polish propaganda
>> sites are not very convincing. Historically, the Poles have been
>> dramatically more anti-Semitic than Germans ever were, which is part
>> of the reason that Germany was flooded with Polish Jews.
>>
>
>I still can´t understand Your hatred towards the Poles and now I can see 
>that You have very deep feelings against the Polish Jewry. The Polish 
>historywriting should be evaluated by means of any other historywriting. Not 
>by means of prejudicies and xenophophia.
>If the Poles are not allowed to write their history, and the Polish Jewry is 
>not capable to write theirs, who in the hell can? The germans?

Toivo, I've been pretty patient with you, but you persist on being a
racist shit by writing anything German in lower case, as a school-boy
insult, whereas other national entities you seem to be able to find
the caps key.

My time is too valuable to waste on idiots, especially racist
Germanophobic idiots, so with this post you are joining the American
jackass "Hiroshima Facts" on a filter, so that your nonsense no longer
clutters my screen.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2046552 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tank battle of Kursk, who had air superiority and did SS  intelligence fail?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 07:04:33 -0700 (PDT), "deemsbill@aol.com"
 wrote:

>On Sep 8, 9:06 am, eunome...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 2:25 pm, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>>
>> > From Robbie Arndts site, it indicates Russian Intelligence was very
>> > active and undetected, so who failed on the Nazi side? SS?
>>
>> The "Russians" you really mean Soviets by which you really mean
>> 'communists' had the best human intelligence on earth and probably
>> continued to do so untill the 1970s when communism started being
>> widely discredited and shown for what it was.  Never forget they
>> killed more than the Nazis did.
>>
>> The Russians got their spys for free, the communists were true
>> believers.  They infested Britain through 'intellectuals' such as
>> Philby, Burgeous, MacLean and Blunt and to a considerable extent the
>> USA where Roosvelts regime had been sympathetic to individuals that
>> were sympathetic to the communistsKlaus Fuchs, The Rosenbergs,
>> Theodore Hall.  This this was a time when Americas media was inclined
>> to turn a blind eye to the Ukranian genocide, the ethnic cleansings,
>> the Gulags and murderous purges.      AFAIKT the British spys probably
>> would have deseved execution given the damage they caused in exposing
>> Western Agents and sending them to their deaths.
>>
>> People might complain about McCarthyism (Purges of Communists in the
>> US media) but a question is was it possible for communist fools to
>> walk the USA into the same stupidity as the Reds.
>>
>> Ofcourse the Nazi regime had created a substantial number of enemies
>> all on its own.
>>
>> > And did
>> > Hitler prove to be a fool due to air support? Did the Russians have a
>> > bigger air force at this time? It would look to me that since the Lucy
>> > spy network was fully intact, the SS failed.
>>
>> Gestapo, not SS, would have been in charge of counter intelligence, I
>> believe.   There were various bodies.
>>
>> Was it Heinrich Himmlers
>>
>> > failure and if so that would make it Hitlers failure because he didn't
>> > fire him.
>>
>> > Hitler should not have been on the offensive with a smaller force in
>> > ground and air, right? But that German reputation and ego "The Germans
>> > always hit their target" and SS soldiers always superior tallys in
>> > kills compared to their losses, Hitlers interpretations were slurred
>> > by this.
>>
>> The Wehrmacht and Waffen SS outfought every other Army 1.5 to 2:1.
>> Tactically they were brilliant and continued to remain formidable even
>> as troop training and quality declined.  However Strategically they
>> were average, even poor.   Even so Kursk was to an extent a draw
>> however whereas the Russians (like the Western allies) could afford
>> some losses the Germans could not afford equal losses or many mistakes
>> since an even war of attrition would see them loose.
>
>     Maybe they shouldn't have tried to take on the whole world......

That scenario was engineered by Britain. The Brits have always been
good at dredging up lackeys of various descriptions from around the
world.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2046553 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Churchill's role in war
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

> A look at history especially the period from 1930 to 1939 would be
>advantageous to any-one who -really- wishes to understand the
>pacifistic nature of many politicians and people at that time.
>It was only Churchill who stood against the many League of Nations
>disarmament plans and the multitude of 'peace' groups of the time.
>And for the uninformed. The Second World War was against the Axis
>Powers.
>Germany, Japan and Italy.
>In destroying the Axis Powers  Britain and the Empire  fought alone
>and bankrupted later generations so they could continue the fight
>against the now admitted evil nazi empire.

>Then turned around at wars end and rebuilt those previous enemy
>countries...

You don't believe that crap yourself. Neither Britain nor the USA
"rebuilt" anybody or any thing. Germany was rebuilt despite the
allies, not because of them. The allied expertise was in looting and
robbery, not in reconstruction.

The so-called Marshall aid was a pittance that didn't even put a tiny
nick in the damages.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:20:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2046555 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fined for Israel flag in Germany
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:21:40 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>A local district court in the West German city of Bochum fined a student 300 
>Euros on Wednesday for displaying an Israel flag at a demonstration 
>organized by Muslim organizations against the IDF Operation Cast Lead in 
>January. According to Der Westen, a regional paper in Bochum, the public 
>prosecutor termed the Israeli flag as "provoking" within a special 
>situation.
>
>
>
>
>The 30-year-old student, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she 
>fears for her safety due to "massive problems with Nazis", told The 
>Jerusalem Post on Wednesday that the "Israeli flag is a provocation for the 
>anti-Semites." She asked rhetorically, "What is provocative about an Israel 
>flag?" The public prosecutor in Bochum was not available for an immediate 
>comment on the case.
>
>According to Der Westen, the local district court judged deemed the protest 
>of the five activists expressing solidarity with Israel as a "dangerous 
>situation."
>
>A spokesman for the district court, Volker Talarowski, told the Post that 
>there was a "violation of the right to assembly" and the court's decision 
>was issued "independent of a political motivation." Talarowski added that 
>the pro-Israel demonstrators failed to register their protest 48 hours 
>before the event.
>
>Yet the student, who is appealing the fine, said a special regulation 
>permits "spontaneous" demonstrations without a pre-registration. In response 
>to a hardcore anti-Israeli demonstration in Bochum attended by 1,600 
>protesters on January 17, the student, along with four pro-Israeli 
>activists, displayed a banner stating "Against anti-Semitism and fascism: 
>Solidarity with Israel" as well as the Israel flag. She told the Post that 
>pro-Palestinian supporters "compared Israel with Nazi Germany." Chants of 
>"children murderer Israel" and "Israel terrorist" filled the protest as well 
>as a banner reading "stop the Holocaust in Gaza."
>
>"There is no basis" to draw a parallel between Nazi Germany and Israel, she 
>said. "A Holocaust did not take place in Gaza. Israel defended its territory 
>from rocket fire" emanating from Hamas, added the student. She termed the 
>argument comparing the Israeli military operation in Gaza with the Holocaust 
>as anti-Semitic.
>
>
>In the Der Westen news report, the student said there is a "confusion of 
>perpetrator and victim. You can only call that anti-Semitism." She told the 
>Post that the protestors in Bochum designated Israelis as Nazis and the 
>Palestinians in Gaza as Jews during the Third Reich.
>
>During Operation Cast Lead over 100,000 mainly German Muslims protested 
>across German cities and frequently compared Israel with the Hitler 
>movement. The European Union's working definition of anti-Semitism defines 
>such comparisons between the Nazis and the Jewish state as a modern 
>manifestation of anti-Semitism, largely because the parallel delegitimizes 
>Israel's right to exist.

Israel has no "right" to exist anymore than any other colonialist
entity has a "right" to exist. Israel is the creation of violence and
terrorism, and will eventually vanish for the same reasons.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2046700 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Churchill's role in war
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 11, 4:32 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > A look at history especially the period from 1930 to 1939 would be
>> >advantageous to any-one who -really- wishes to understand the
>> >pacifistic nature of many politicians and people at that time.
>> >It was only Churchill who stood against the many League of Nations
>> >disarmament plans and the multitude of 'peace' groups of the time.
>> >And for the uninformed. The Second World War was against the Axis
>> >Powers.
>> >Germany, Japan and Italy.
>> >In destroying the Axis Powers  Britain and the Empire  fought alone
>> >and bankrupted later generations so they could continue the fight
>> >against the now admitted evil nazi empire.
>> >Then turned around at wars end and rebuilt those previous enemy
>> >countries...
>>
>> You don't believe that crap yourself. Neither Britain nor the USA
>> "rebuilt" anybody or any thing. Germany was rebuilt despite the
>> allies, not because of them. The allied expertise was in looting and
>> robbery, not in reconstruction.
>>
>> The so-called Marshall aid was a pittance that didn't even put a tiny
>> nick in the damages.
>
>Your response is that of a nazi

Your retardation is showing. I have never been a Nazi, nor have I ever
subscribed to their right-wing ideology.

> who cant admit that Germany was so
>thoroughly defeated in a war they started

Who started what is debatable, but there is clearly a limit to what
can be done when you are outnumbered by better than ten to one.

> that if it hadn't been for
>the Allies at wars end feeding and clothing the German nation hundreds
>of thousands would have died in the next winter.

Actually, millions died as a result of the deliberate allied
starvation program. No relief supplies were permitted during 1945,
1946, and 1947. German farmers were prevented by the allies from
growing anything, and what little there was fell victim to allied
looting. The survival of the German people is largely the result of
the falling-out-among-thieves that occurred late in 1947, between the
western allies and the USSR.
>
>The nazis left nothing for their civilians.

This isn't quite true, since it was the allies who basically stole
whatever was at hand. The Americans, for example, actively blocked the
Red Cross and other relief agencies from doing anything in Germany
until 1947.

The German public has absolutely nothing for which to be grateful to
the allies. The allied presence was pretty much 100% negative.




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2046701 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Churchill's role in war
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:42:55 -0700 (PDT), George 
wrote:

>On Sep 11, 10:51 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Sep 10, 4:31 pm, George  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 11, 4:32 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > A look at history especially the period from 1930 to 1939 would be
>> > > >advantageous to any-one who -really- wishes to understand the
>> > > >pacifistic nature of many politicians and people at that time.
>> > > >It was only Churchill who stood against the many League of Nations
>> > > >disarmament plans and the multitude of 'peace' groups of the time.
>> > > >And for the uninformed. The Second World War was against the Axis
>> > > >Powers.
>> > > >Germany, Japan and Italy.
>> > > >In destroying the Axis Powers  Britain and the Empire  fought alone
>> > > >and bankrupted later generations so they could continue the fight
>> > > >against the now admitted evil nazi empire.
>> > > >Then turned around at wars end and rebuilt those previous enemy
>> > > >countries...
>>
>> > > You don't believe that crap yourself. Neither Britain nor the USA
>> > > "rebuilt" anybody or any thing. Germany was rebuilt despite the
>> > > allies, not because of them. The allied expertise was in looting and
>> > > robbery, not in reconstruction.
>>
>> > > The so-called Marshall aid was a pittance that didn't even put a tiny
>> > > nick in the damages.
>>
>> > Your response is that of a nazi who cant admit that germany was so
>> > thoroughly defeated in a war they started that if it hadn't been for
>> > the Allies at wars end feeding and clothing the german nation hundreds
>> > of thousands would have died in the next winter.
>>
>> Define 'nazi' here.  You are accusing someone of being a 'nazi.'  You
>> don't seem to know what the term means.  I think a 'nazi' was a member
>> of the natSoc party of Germany during the time of Hitler.
>> What is your definition?  George?  C'mon now.
>
>Your posting history defines you as a nazi.

LOL

You have verified yourself as a clueless moron, george. Your drivel
postings would normally give a failing grade to a grade 3 pupil, let
alone somebody who claims to be an adult.


>End of story.
> Build a bridge and get over yourself


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2046702 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Churchill's role in war
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:51:26 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 10, 4:31 pm, George  wrote:
>> On Sep 11, 4:32 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT), George 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > A look at history especially the period from 1930 to 1939 would be
>> > >advantageous to any-one who -really- wishes to understand the
>> > >pacifistic nature of many politicians and people at that time.
>> > >It was only Churchill who stood against the many League of Nations
>> > >disarmament plans and the multitude of 'peace' groups of the time.
>> > >And for the uninformed. The Second World War was against the Axis
>> > >Powers.
>> > >Germany, Japan and Italy.
>> > >In destroying the Axis Powers  Britain and the Empire  fought alone
>> > >and bankrupted later generations so they could continue the fight
>> > >against the now admitted evil nazi empire.
>> > >Then turned around at wars end and rebuilt those previous enemy
>> > >countries...
>>
>> > You don't believe that crap yourself. Neither Britain nor the USA
>> > "rebuilt" anybody or any thing. Germany was rebuilt despite the
>> > allies, not because of them. The allied expertise was in looting and
>> > robbery, not in reconstruction.
>>
>> > The so-called Marshall aid was a pittance that didn't even put a tiny
>> > nick in the damages.
>>
>> Your response is that of a nazi who cant admit that germany was so
>> thoroughly defeated in a war they started that if it hadn't been for
>> the Allies at wars end feeding and clothing the german nation hundreds
>> of thousands would have died in the next winter.
>>
>
>Define 'nazi' here.  You are accusing someone of being a 'nazi.'  You
>don't seem to know what the term means.  I think a 'nazi' was a member
>of the natSoc party of Germany during the time of Hitler.
>What is your definition?  George?  C'mon now.

George is a jackass. He seems to be another one that goes for the
puerile insult of misspelling Germany, German and other related terms
by using lower case, which is not the proper usage in English.

Most of the problems in postwar Germany were the work of the allies.
The surrender of the German armed services did not bring peace, but
simply allowed the vicious allies to continue their murderous mission
without opposition. No German person who lived through the period has
any obligation of gratitude to the vicious oppressors who occupied
Germany from 1945 - 1948. 

The so-called economic miracle occurred after 1948 when control was
returned to German authorities, and the influence of the monstrous
fuck-ups known as the "Allied Military Government" was sharply
curtailed.


>
>> The nazis left nothing for their civilians.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2046703 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Updated Holocaust Links-REPOST
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:27:36 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Watch McVay calling you a Nazi now.

McVay calls everybody a Nazi, so that designation is largely
meaningless.

> Could this be the reason why they label 
>all their opponents Nazi.

Smear is so much easier than reasoned discussion, which is exactly why
KM uses it so extensively. KM is a propandist with very low levels of
education. Why do we always shelter human garbage from the USA?

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:tvoia51dsai4elartdn2ctbtjfl75iikg2@4ax.com...
>> by James Buchanan
>>
>> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>> political power and banned them from the legal profession. Germany
>> went from devastating economic poverty in 1932 to full employment just
>> a couple years later.  If an incredible economic improvement can be
>> achieved, merely by removing the Jews from power (and replacing them
>> with patriotic nationalists), then every Gentile nation in the world
>> should give this a try.
>>
>> Obviously the Jews don't want anyone else getting the idea of removing
>> them to create prosperity. The Jews control the mass media in most
>> Western countries. Most people don't know about the Balfour
>> Declaration. During World War One, Zionist Jews offered to use their
>> control of the press to bring America into World War One if Britain
>> would promise them Palestine. This offer was dubbed the Balfour
>> Declaration. If the Jews had enough media control and influence to
>> push America into World War One in 1917, what else have they done with
>> their power?
>>
>> It was a huge embarrassment for the Jews to see Germany so prosperous
>> in the mid-1930s after removing them from power. They considered this
>> a dangerous precedent. To deal with this "problem" the Jewish World
>> Congress declared war on Germany in 1933. This declaration of war at
>> least encouraged a world-wide boycott against Germany and at worst
>> encouraged other nations of the world to become hostile toward
>> Germany. (The Jews curiously sanctioned the Germans before the Germans
>> passed any laws restricting the Jews.) More importantly the Jews
>> pushed vicious anti-German slander in all the Jewish-owned newspapers
>> in the West in the years leading up to World War Two. The Communist
>> mass murder of 30 million people in Russia and the Ukraine received
>> almost no publicity in the Jewish media. Most people in the West only
>> heard a serious mention of these Communist mass murders beginning in
>> the 1980s. Instead, the Jewish media focused all their hatred and
>> agitation against Germany and its allies.
>>
>> After six years of relentless agitation, the Jews pushed England and
>> France into war with Germany. Only two years later, FDR and his cabal
>> of Jews provoked a war with Japan (and Germany).
>>
>> Naturally, the Jews did not want future historians to say: "World War
>> Two was provoked by the Jewish media in retaliation for Germany
>> removing the Jews from power." The Jews needed a new reason for World
>> War Two. A reason that painted their enemies as unquestionably evil.
>> So they invented the Holocaust.
>>
>> The Holocaust stood mostly unchallenged for decades after the war
>> because people feared being branded "Nazi-sympathizers" for
>> questioning its details. The truth always comes out in the long run.
>> Professor Arthur Butz published his famous work "The Hoax of the 20th
>> Century" in 1977 detailing a very solid argument against this war
>> propaganda. Dr. Butz pointed out that the world population of Jews
>> remained at about 16 million before and after the war. He also noted
>> that half a million Jews remained in Paris after four years of German
>> occupation. Both these facts strongly suggest the Holocaust is a
>> fraud, but the political power of the Jews has suppressed and punished
>> any public questioning of the Holocaust to this day. David Irving
>> joined the ranks of Revisionist historians several years ago and went
>> from a famous successful author to a pariah thanks to persecution by
>> the Jews.
>>
>> The Institute for Historical Review has done great work exposing the
>> Holocaust as a great historical fraud. Anyone interested in looking
>> for historical truth should visit their website. It's a shock for many
>> people to see how much propaganda we've been force fed.
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/     www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/
>>
>> http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>>
>> http://heretical.com/   http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2046704 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Updated Holocaust Links-REPOST
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On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:07:48 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 10, 10:37 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "keiner da" Cross and  wrote:
>>
>> >it Means National socialistic party. Its no different the Canadian new
>> >democratic party or the democrats in America. The Jewish propaganda machine
>> >in the states and candy makes the decisions what a party is. And they will
>> >cheat and lie to accomplish this. If they think they are really kosher they
>> >should have a good look what is going on in Palestine.
>>
>> NAZI equates with vitriolism racial supremacism, fascism and
>> genocide. Those who share their racial and political views can
>> fairly be called Nazis.
>>
>
>Funny.  I have none of those views yet have been called 'nazi' on
>numerous occasions.
>Is Israel a 'nazi' state?  Are Jews who proclaim themselves 'the
>chosen people', are
>they 'nazis'?

The modern Israelis clearly have much of the same mind-set as the
Nazis of old, including all the ethnic superiority crap.

>
>> YOU have claimed that there are "original German records" that
>> Germans are not allowed to see, yet when asked to identify
>> these alleged records on Sept. 5, 2009 , you could not do so.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
>> with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>> were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon
>> Project" is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.  You
>> were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion
>> that 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you
>> have claimed. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty,
>> exactly, prohibits the construction of Polish military
>> installations along the Polish Corridor, even though you
>> claim such a prohibition exists within the treaty. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies
>> and the post-war German & Japanese governments that banned
>> "butting" the Allies in "a bad light" as you have claimed.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether
>> or not materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are
>> available. You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of
>> newspapers printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>> You were lying.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their
>> claim about gassings at Dachau. You were lying about seeking
>> `the truth.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a
>> plaque exists outside the Dachau camp which states that no
>> one was ever gassed there, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion
>> of the Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust,"
>> as you have claimed. You were lying.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the
>> truth" is so easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which
>> forbids "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as
>> you have claimed. You were lying.
>>
>> Nigerian 419 and Advance Fee Scammers Spam Bait
>> Updated Sept. 7, 2009
>>
>>
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>pawil...@myway.com, gkatas...@gmail.com, barrthomasa...@gmail.com, mxjoh...@hotmail.com, jeffnorbert...@yahoo.com, mariamsancar...@gmail.com, bnnajipatr...@hotmail.com, esam_...@msn.com, euroconsultan...@gmail.com, euromillio...@gmail.com, fidow...@hotmail.com, glo...@netcabo.pt, profsoludo...@sify.com, claimsdepartment...@live.com, eddyleg...@terra.es, allensec_hamilton2...@hotmail.com, weather_claims_investigationcrim...@live.com, pos...@poczta.onet.pl, austinmanbas...@yahoo.co.uk, investigationcrim...@live.com, claimsunitedofficer...@googlemail.com, HENRI.mar...@wanadoo.fr, acculott...@yahoo.co.uk, aoaadjei.gov...@gmail.com, fedexdelivery_...@yahoo.com, ka_don...@yahoo.com.co, harrisonpowell2...@live.com, bashirubak...@yahoo.no, crowleyherbl...@gmail.com, lawagar...@yahoo.com.ve, contactbrianwall...@gmail.com, economic-coperat...@live.com, vnicel...@live.com, contactbrianwall...@gmail.com, proffesorcharles...@hotmail.com, contact...@ymail.com, paulnku...@yahoo.com,
>claimdp...@live.com, nokia_contactclaimsage...@yahoo.co.uk, inforelca...@gmail.com, rasaki_sali...@universia.cl, ministry_finance-dept_atmserv...@live.com, freelottoagen...@aol.co.uk, benjboard...@gmail.com, sec.qefondatio...@yahoo.co.uk mrhong.w...@yahoo.com.hk, nursemarydon...@yahoo.co.uk, princebernar...@yahoo.com, cont...@unitednation-org.net, quwamhamm...@gmail.com, juliet_stanf...@msn.com, juliet_stanf...@rocketmail.com, miss01mercy...@gmail.com, baristerhernan...@gmail.com, mathiaskabil...@jmail.co.za, dr_musaluabu...@yahoo.co.jp, liu_yan0...@yahoo.com.hk, mrslindahill...@632yahoo.com.hk, jamescampbelllawf...@gmail.com, nancy.o...@sify.com, ralphcreditc...@yahoo.com, princebernar...@yahoo.com, fedex_expresscouriercomp...@ubbi.com, jamesud...@hotmail.com, cbn_gover...@centrbanknig.com, philipa...@gmail.com, atmcente...@hotmail.com, pinnacle...@gmail.com, andrewwolley...@googlemail.com, netpointagent...@netscape.com, europa.org...@live.co.uk,
>internationalaudit...@googlemail.com, cbnsulei...@doramail.com, unionfinancelimi...@live.co.uk, verificationdepartmen...@live.com, jmjimmymat...@hotmail.com, compere_eric_loan...@yahoo.co.jp, williamjess...@rocketmail.com, gidai2...@gmail.com, cont...@unitednation-org.net, jamesf...@live.com, flakma...@yahoo.com, dr_samuel.peters_lende...@live.com, baristerhernan...@gmail.com, chan_pkw2...@yahoo.com.hk, williamsta...@yahoo.co.uk, me-danq...@excite.com, roseberry.investments.loanlen...@gmail.com, tedlrobert...@live.com,...
>>
>> read more »


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2046712 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The cremation capacity in Auschwitz. CREMATION AT NAZI CAMPS: why , how , where & REAL NUMBERS
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On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:27:50 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Any more new stories let us know.

Topi is so ridiculous. Even if the camp were surrounded by coal mines,
the stuff still needs to be transported to the site, even if it is
only a few kilometres. There is just no evidence of any of that
happening. In addition, the Reichsbahn was not in the habit of
shipping ANYTHING or ANYBODY for free. The receipts apparently don't
exist either, nor the receipts for the mine owners.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>news:4aaa4e87$0$24771$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>
>> "ZuLu" <""zulu\"@Pourquoi Picon, Pasque c'est bon.con"> kirjoitti 
>> viestissä:4aa957ca$2@news.x-privat.org...
>>>
>>> To burn 400 000 people in ovens you need at least 11,480 tons of coke, 
>>> much more if you make it in open pits and even more weight in equivalent 
>>> of wood.
>>>
>>> Show me the papers coming from nazi bureaucracy and related with that 
>>> fantastic amount of material. Anything would serve, requisitions, BOL, 
>>> orders, invoices, railways files etc...anything you find....I am 
>>> waiting....
>>>
>>> The big problem with holoks' allegations is that they can't prove the 
>>> consumption of those enormous quantities of fuel needed to burn the 
>>> exaggerated number of victims they claim.
>>>
>>> Amazing situation while we observe that we have papers concerning the 
>>> purchase of a single bolt by the nazi administration.
>>>
>>> Without fuel nothing burns, that's life.
>>>
>>> It wasn't easy to make disappear all traces of the alleged manipulation 
>>> of more than 11 000 tons of coke in nazi times!
>>
>> Upper Silesia lies on bed of charcoal and coal. For that reason the 
>> Auschwitz complex was surrounded by hevy industrial plants: planty of 
>> slaves and plenty of energy. In the vicinity of Aushwitz there were 28 
>> subcamps of which 6 were coalmines.
>>
>> Topi
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2046892 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Liquidation of the Vilna Ghetto
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On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:05:38 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>Ken, we've heard all of this before.  My main question is:  'Why do
>you justify the murder of German Civilians'?  How can you justify the
>murder of millions of German civilians?  You have said that the denial
>of the holocaust offends your sense of humanity.  Why do you not
>extend the same courtesy to those who had nothing to do with the war,
>who were just trying to get by?  I'd really like an answer.  You've
>been putting me off for many a month/year.  Or don't you think the
>Germans were human?

Kenny appears to have the same attitude towards Germans that he claims
Nazis had towards Jews. The difference between Ken and one of the
Nazis he likes to excoriate is the same as the difference between a
Chevrolet and a Pontiac, principally the nameplate. I personally find
Ken disgusting and offensive to the Nth degree.

>It's about time you man upped and let us know what you think once
>again of the innocent Germans who were melted and burned and maimed...


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2046893 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: germany's jews outraged once again
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:15:46 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  schreef in bericht 
>news:YtJqm.43650$Db2.30775@edtnps83...
>> The proper way to please the Jews is to get their permission before 
>> opening your mouth long live the Israeli currency.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>it is sickening to see how them jews are whining aOUT EVERYTHING IN GERMANY. 
>WHY DONOT THEY MOVE TO THEIR BELOVE4D HOMELOAND? 

In Germany, the locals stupidly listen to the whining, whereas in
their homeland authorities are much slower to respond.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 21:42:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2046894 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Liquidation of the Vilna Ghetto
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:16:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Sep 12, 9:10 am, "_ G O D _"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrotenews:15860e53-b2df-4087-bbab-5cb5831d09cd@s39g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I accused others of what?  That McVay justified
>> > murder of German civilians?  He did.  That's a fact.
>> > He said that the 'Germans got what they deserved'.
>>
>> I didn't find word "murder" in you own citation of his words.
>> Maybe he meant to say a "bad rap" instead of the wrongly
>> assumed (by you) a "justified murder of German civilians?"
>>
>> > Also, Sara Salzman when confronted about German civilian
>> > deaths stated 'Well I guess Germany shouldn't have started
>> > the war then.'  She denied having said that, so I had to hunt
>> > down the post and show her.  I expect she'll deny it again.
>>
>> Obviously, she is together with those ragging on Germans,
>> who indeed deserved the bad rap no ohter country has got,
>> inspite the ongoing slavery and genocide in other countries.
>
>So you justify the murder of German civilians as well?

In their simple minds, Germany started the war, so that gave the
allies the privilege of totally ignoring international law and the
conventions of warfare. The whole concept is as ignorant as it is
childish. A war started by "A" against "B" does not entitle "B" to
commit war crimes anymore than a neighbour trampling on my floors
entitles me to burn down his house as a revenge measure.





  You are trying
>to justify what she said, but you're bogging down.
>
>> Because it happened in Germany in larger proporiton than
>> in ohter countries at the time, when it's in focus of the entire
>> world and they should be ashamed for unfair persecution of
>> the most disadvantaged (civilians) for sake of capitalization
>> in their own country - as well as in others, occupied by them.....
>> --
>
>In a round about way, you are trying to stick up for those who
>justified the murder of German civilians.  If not, then just come out
>and